Heroes of Healthcare
Heroes of Healthcare

Episode · 4 months ago

Ingenuity & Dedication During Challenging Times

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Misinformation continues to crop up around the world regarding COVID-19.

To set the record straight, we talk with two heroic experts who have dedicated their lives to the study and treatment of infectious diseases: Dr. Supriya Mannepalli, Medical Director for Infectious Diseases, and Sandy Bozarth, MSN, RN, CIC, both with Northeast Georgia Health System.

Topics covered:

  • Proactive steps taken in the early days of the pandemic
  • What makes COVID highly contagious
  • The ingenuity involved in sourcing PPE
  • COVID variants and the future of treatment
  • Why the vaccine is a marvel of modern science

Heroes of Healthcare is hosted by Ted Weyn.

To hear this interview and more like it, subscribe to Heroes of Healthcare on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Heroes of Healthcare in your favorite podcast player.

You were listening to heroes of healthcare, the podcast that highlights bold selfless professionals in the healthcare industry focused on transforming lives in their communities. Let's getinto the show, welcome to the heroes of health care podcast on your host TedWayne. Today, I'm talking to two leaders in the area of medicine- that'sbeen top of mine for all of us. Over the past year, infectious disease,misinformation on how and wide disease spreads is rampant. So we are bringingthe experts to you, so you can get accurate information. I'm joined to dayby Sandy bozarth a registered nurse and Doctor Seria MANAPO medical directorfor infectious diseases both from the northeast Georgia. Health System Sandy holds a master's degree innursing, specializing and infectious prevention and control and is acertified in infection. Control and epidemiologist has eighteen years ofexperience in infectious disease. After attending medical school in India, doorManapo completed her internal medicine, residency at the University ofTennessee and her Infectious Disease Fellowship at the University of Florida.She has particular interest in infection prevention and control andanti microbial stewardship. Sandy and doctor Manapo have dedicated theirlives to the study and treatment of infectious diseases and have spenttheir past year on the front lines of the fight against Covin nineteen. It isabsolutely our pleasure to have both of you here joining the show, thanks forbeing here, welcome to the heroes of health care, podcast and we're happy tobe joined by Dr Manapo and Sandy Bosaw e to the show ye get bad yes, yeah.Well, as I, as I mentioned just a few moments ago in our pre, call we're veryexcited about having you guys on the show. We've been trying to get you onthe show, I think we said since January, but needless to say in your line ofwork, you're a bit busy these days so, but we're finally glad that we're ableto have you join us and talk about this important topic. We're still in themiddle of everybody, says we're on the down, maybe we're on the down slope,but we're still in the middle of a pandemic, and I think the informationis timely and is always relevant for our listeners to hear before we jump in,though, if you don't mind, could you give the listeners a little bit moreabout your background, where you've come from, where, where you how youdecided to get into this crazy world of medicine, we'd love for you guys toshare that with us. I started. I grew up in Iowa and becamea nurse there and worked in the theatric unit of university wile for awhile before I knew anything about infectionconvention and control. I started here at this facility in two thousand andtwo it's about nineteen years that I've been infecting control. Since then,I've gone back to get my masters in science of Nursing, specializing,affection, dimension in control or to Davy as several years ago, but it's oneof those areas of nursing that you either eitherlove it or you don't and- and fortunately we not fortunately mabeethinking about last year of but I love it Nan. This is just where anyway listthank you Sandy and Dr Manapo. I think for me a gay. It's been really destiny,and you know that I ended up in medicine. My mom is a physician. A thininitially was my parents interest, but then I didn't realize when I startedmed school just it felt so right that this is one profession where you areowning your living. At the same time, you're serving people every day so andthe infection diseases was, I think...

...again. It was distined, because I neverimagined it that just this is a seal separate speciality going up in India,because we saw a lot of that even in geof practice, but at the coming fear.I think it just fascinated me that learning about the books, becausethey're all ways smarter than us they tried to out smarter. So you have tokeep up your prey so you're trying to really always you are the one who getscalled when you have a patient where we don't know what's going on and it'sjust very intriguing and you're, always learning that's great and doctor mantpolly. Have you been? How long have you been practicing at northeast GeorgiaShot Im than sand? I started here in thousand thirteen okay yeah. I I new yeah R nineteen years wow greatwell, thank you for your all. Your dedication so take us back. I mean Iknow we do this often on the show, but take us back a little bit too. You know,probably last year March February, we're all starting to hear on the newsthat there's this thing coming we've in the past. I think we've seen SARS andwe've seen some of these other things that kind of came and went. I think alot of us felt that that was probably what was going to happen here, but itwasn't, and so what were you guys seeing what we experiencing and whatwas that? Take us through a little bit of that of that journey before we startheading into second wave and then obviously, let's spend lots of timestalking about the vaccine and and perceptions today, but take us back tolast year. One thing that sticks out in my mind isthe early in frame is in March we did aninfection prevention, it controls imposing them, which is something thatwe do. Angly of our health system provides a for what is all the healtharea of the hospitals of Mortis George's with his intention, and it wasscheduled for that very first week of March and we were really focusing manyof our people were focusing on on Celvin because it was. It was prettymuch the know at that point and our Kino speaker was a position that wascoming from New York and this o. This topic was coming and the day before this imposin, a member of our chiefmedical officer, came into my office and said: I think we should cancel it.It's it could it could be a bad decision, bring that many people intoone one room and of course, remember this time. We really had no, no cases,I mean went ahead, and did this impose? I glad we did it was. It was a greateducation for everyone, our Quino speaker to accomplised the night before, and they suddenly had done somepatients with cover at their facility, and he just couldn't let me so so that was done virtually, but I thinkright then as well. If he is that this, this is going to be I going to besomething something huge. I was whether we want to head with his imposingbecause, like I said, there was a good bit of information for where theseSoutare casilear Si Georgia preparing of what we thought. We would do. Different player Persean,just the the peak, came a way, but that is one of the things I remember the LOstands out in my line. Tithesi on, should we have this Gat group togetheror not, and- and I think for everyone else- it'sstarting in Mars right but as it started, oinjure really. I think it wasactually new or Indis in affection control. You are always kind of on thealert you see something in the news that even has a re more chance or kind oftouching our pace for our community,...

...and we had not what it was because atthat time there was no mean there was no information of them and just unknownrespirator illness and patience in China and in so all I think we did wasjust send an Allod to the Organ Pas and the Ed we imagin city partners wherethey could see potential paces to make sure they're asking about travel, and Ialways go back to that. One patient, the persvasion with the OLA. We hadyour start with the key travel information. You know if we had ourrita hired. So we all is an infection control that I mealy stress on havingtravel history, so I think that's kind of where at least our communicationfocus on ask about travel. If they're coming in with the respiratory symptoms,so at least you're thinking about something unusual, and then we go now,as we saw the way, things were a all being again with very limitedinformation. We got a group of people together thatinfluer your nurse saying, imagest, partment t, of course, infectioncontrol and images, a Goanese leading and the other physician leaders,materials management, evas. We had so many pharmacy love everyone togetherand form like a task for just in case. This was going to be something big andthat was- and that was around January. So you were starting to be or February.That was you, so you would be unprobated to say. Let's have, let'sstart talking about this in case it it's bigger than a bread box. As we say,it's not it's yeah, but I don't think any of is would have convicted watoonto. I think I might as go put all these things in place. Yeah E won't have touse. I still remember one of the big decision points for, as was when wewere making signs to put at the entrances. Should we put travel historyto certain places or not right an I m glad we decided not to because thatjust changed within a few days that it has nothing to do with travel, and it'sright here in the community right, yeah yeah. So right we think it's coming infrom another country, but no it's in our back yard. So it doesn't matter. Itdoesn't matter where you've been traveling to that actually was true forthe first patient. We had yeah right. He didn't have any traveling history,yes, so he had had. He had contracted in some place locally, so we suspectedall along in March. I think, but had no way of testing or proving that, becauseat that time he still had to go through the health department to get her provalfor testing. So they had very strict, a great serian given limited testing thatif we didn't need these ten taxes, O won't get a test right. I patiently we,the travel history. I remember one of the patients. I think there was atransfer through one of the countries but did not come from the country, sodidn't decline. The first, because no they just transitory, was just a purestay in the airport. They did actually get out then. So we didn't get the test.We still isolated them because at least you kind of quiver, your preventingtranslation, and when was it when you actually could admit how long did ittake until you could administer the test itself, that you didn't have tosend the cultures necessarily out or you had the right kits or you couldstart to confirm that that's what they had versus something else. I remember.I remember the exact date on that, but it was a struggle in the beginning, Ohen when we were able to send a test to a poise first to send to a t to the health department inAmerica, and then we had supply so rich related to that in the beginning. Butwas little that I remember what that was an issue who ran out of the smalls.

It was, I mean honestly, I ave labbarkmen timing after conway by Sara. I can go on that the comic by the end ofher first search within a few weeks. We had several send out laps and we hadtwo in house gests wow. It was just a few weeks because we were alreadycomparing loads in terms of which test is better than the other. We were doaligator by April or mony. So I in the amazing speed. I can't even imagine howmuch of work they so you had to put in because you can just bring in a newchest without validating without making sure it's working as to which or it issupposed to so in recourse. We had tests available, but that was the samein gratis, because if we were depending on someone approving a test, then it's always we're not going to getenough cash to identify me all the one O suspecting. So I think, moving awayfrom that having the custom widely available, even today that we have somuch of gusting. We do in health, but our lave leadership has hisrelationship and access to all this sent out as in case, if we ever needand the volumes go up, yeah yeah, I so when you think about what theinformation you were receiving in those early months, you know March April andMay about the virus, and now here we are a year later and you look back atit. What's changed like, were there certain things they were saying. Wethink this about it. We think to treat it this way. We think you should dothis. We think we should do that and now, a year later, you're saying we'refinding that, maybe not that that was wrong, but there was better things nowthere are better things to do. How is that changed in a year? How you'retreating this when it's identified? I think that not that not that we are aMiltin of it, but I think a lot of the fear is gone. You know in the beginning,it was true to the unknown. I remember having a cod minute that just therespecific staff to work on and we had very specific PPE for them. Of course,some of it was because of the ability to get the people, but it just seemslike we were Lee Co. Herding nursing is really believing anybody that was inthat room. I don't know, as as the the year is progressed, I feel like we havethe stronger of you know we were not were we understand the VIREO andrealize exactly how it's war, what what passes is wit to put in place to keepthat that's Great Hap, so just the knowledge of the virus has been hugeand how we not even treated that we prevent them. You Know Trans to others.No, it's interesting when it moves so little about the virus. There was somuch fear, that's what I'm doing yeah so scared Ye. That's a great point,you're saying, because he just I mean had Higuay in the hospital was at thehighest. Everyone was watching the IT hands. Everyone was reading the foind. Now, no more some things have changed, whichsome things are still the same. The virus can be spread, I mean in the airby drop, let it can be a gone in there in areas of generating procedures ofsome of caps or sneezes, and we have several treatments available. We havethe vaccines to piling Sirian infection. I think that's just such a thing thathas sidin it's just such fatigue that has settle, but it's almost and thefear is gone and which is good. We don't need to bescared right, but with the fatigue now with in such a hurry to write itoff that to kin this were past this. You know the Palamit were close to thefoolish line that we are becoming...

...complacent with following some of thepeace in revente measures that we know are so important and thatprotected US rathest sure yeah. I see I mean you know we're conducting thisinterview and you both have your masks on because you're sitting close inproximity you're in a clinical setting- and I was out at a couple of events thelast few days and no masks and and and what's kind of funny for me- Is I'vebecome so accustomed to having it and wearing it that when I was out at theat the events I kept going away- and I don't have my mask on like I would havethis reflex to say I need my. I need to put my mask on, and yet I realizednobody did. Nobody had it on. So we were. Obviously everybody was kind ofokay with it, and I didn't know you know so we are living in this littlebit of this limbo time. You know yes, mass no mask DC, says now, if you're ina big open outside area and you're, not in close proximity, no masks, and soyeah I mean, were it, took us a year to get conditioned to wearing them and nowwe're having to try to unconditioned them, and but what I hear you saying iswe still need to be cautious. Yes, yes, because if there is anything we canlearn from the example of what's happening in India, we're talking abouta bit is that's highly contagious that can cause sevier disease and the sultanso many debts, and that is spread by a R endroit. So things can go from thethe members of not explanation high, very quickly like what we are sayingthere yeah, and I think it's goes back to the same things it sell to thePrettie. But yes, the vaccine, a is giving us some relaxed measures andstorms of what we can do without the master Socha discussing and that'sgreat. I think we need to be really cognisant about. We we still need towear the mask. They still follow the precautions yeah I've got, I mean I got so manyquestions, so he and I'm not and, as you know, self professed, not clinical,not a doctor didn't play one on TV, so, as so is, is, is ovid more contagious.If there's even such a comparison, then the flu or then a cold or somethingwhat made ovid spread so rapidly. As you said just a minute ago, highlycontagious, what makes it more contagious if it is then something elseI think to be again everyone any virus events on how it is translated right, Ithink, with Howid. I think it is spread by, of course, the most common droplet,but has a pretention to be air borne, and I think now we know that for my socervices are not the main way of transmission, but it could be possible.So if we look at the numbers, if you lookat the flu numbers, you know the last fall in winter. Compare to play withright. Just I think we find the answer right there. If we act ribute low flucases to masking and social distancingmeasures, the same should have a Pli, and I did not like to call it right. Imean the, but we didn't have the search, even if masking and social distancingin winter here right, and that makes you question how different thosenumbers would have been if we were not following those precautionary measuresas it relates to Covin, you mean right, so so so let me so you you're touchingon another thing that I have a question at so I've had I've heard and on mediaand again media is media. We haved to...

...inspect everything we hear as multiplesources, but there's been there's been some observations, I'll call it. Idon't want to say criticism, but it's o observations that the C DC is saying.There was almost relatively basis no flu last year and there's a lot ofpeople saying then that means they. There was more flue, but we just arewe're now tagging everything that somebody comes in as Ovid right, sothat what there? What the things I'm hearing is that it wasn't that the flunumbers were down, it's just that the hospitals and the systems are justtagging. Everything is flu. Is that what is tell me what your thoughts areon that, and why is why? And why was flu so low? That's not true, okay, yeah!So why do you feel the flu numbers were so low or almost non existent? If youlook at c DC numbers, I think when it comes to flu right in films of virus, Ithink it's infective. Ty are not or not number is less than coved and also itsmildly, spread by droplets and our masking in social distancing, kept theflu number snow because the first thought could be. Maybe more people gotvaccinated for few the sear, but when we looked at least locally with in ourright, our vaccination data for fluid was not much different from the yearbefore. So it was a combination of vaccination, along with masking andsocial distancing that kept the number slow and they did have an effect on thecoin. So any time you look at the comic members, we have to look at them inrelation to what those numbers would have been with masking and socialdistancing for Sus, not sure and- and- and I don't disagree-that those things have had a huge impact in from this becoming worse thanit was so so. Two Questions: is flu not transmitted through the same way, Luistransmitted? The same way say this as Ovid, the brotes e Arsoli, with aprocedure of certain procedures are being done, but I think that incorrecting a lot of the plain, what you said was how contagious it is theCovini more contagious. Okay, but you know another thing that I think is isperhaps we did have more food than we in the number show, but that thepatient also a passive cotes. So when I hear the community say, Oh the letevery thing on Ovid. Well, I don't agree with that because at least forour facility, I think it would be rare to none where we had a covin diagnosis.Where there wasn't a positive ches. I mean it did happen. I rely so we also do a flud test, not,alas, we do have a test now that does flu and hope, but inthe beginning we didn't so could we have had some flu along with the COVINA.Maybe that e did, but I do think that the flu was was much less. I think isbecause the okay, and and not to get too technical, but I know that I'm not-and I know that the audience listeners can you talk a little bit about DrManapo or Sandy. You talked about the are not number. What does that mean?You said the are not reading or the number of the of the viruses. Basicallyit's just in dicito infectious, so or not is specially how many pensions are,how many others, one infected person can in fact got it. Okay, that's good,and what is the difference between a flu and a coved in terms of thosenumbers? Do you know ball parking, but they are in a member of my head becauseit changes depending on the setting. It is changes depending on the crowd, afloat proximity. They all got it, but Colin is much higher than F much higher.Okay, great, that's, I'm learning, and so hopefully the listeners are too so.This is great. I appreciate your guys...

...indulging me with my questions. No, I just don't want this to get sotechnical, that's the a sure! No No! No, but I know will sometimes you know whenyou when we talk to folks and they use technical terms, I like to try to backup and at least explain them so because otherwise it goes right past you and Idon't know what they said- a go from saying that one infected person, infact only one other person to it- could be three could be at depending on agame the whole setting is it indoors. Is it outdoors? Is it how many peoplein the space the size of the space or the masking or they're? Not so there'sso many factors that affect that yeah? No. I appreciate that and I've heardnumbers that some of the studies that have been done are massive one personhas. It goes to an event and the spread is just you know exponentialin terms of what happens so the second wave comes along what was different in n terms of howyou, obviously a lot of lessons learned. You knew more what you were dealingwith, what change for you guys and your and your facility in terms of how youstarted to treat that second wave, that we went through in December. One thing is: We were a bit moreprepared struggled as as every help parasolacross us, the country did stoape and our strategic sourcing department wasamazing, heating us what we needed, but we went through a lot of challengeswith particularly gowns. For instance, we ran out of balance quite quite early,so we were were blessed to live in a community that they wanted to help sohelpless. That was just it. So I say: What can we do an do? We actually setup for our corporate plaza with sewing machines and many people from the pencame and and were sewing downs, Oh wow, a sorry showing mass. At one point, wegone to a plastic cheating almost like a Toshli, fresh, bad gliders. You knowit and we had a group that was his keep using those together to make wounds. Itwas it was, it was tricky, but our strategic sourcing folks looked intogowns, it could be landered, and that true was was what was was our sayinggreat actually and we just purchased them as as quickly omens as many as wecould, and I think that second second way was easier. If you can say the wereeasier because we had those gowns and we didn't have a day to day concern ohow many gales do we have it Hainan still, what day at that was that was doyeah. I'm honestly, I think that's the coolthat amazes me that you know I keep saying we're all tired and I thimeon,but I don't know where every one got that Eley, because in each I mean justto keep going just to keep going and just getting creative ideas. Even whenyou're just KI exhausted, you've been working nonstop day and night and thenI challenge is thrown it up and we came up at a creative idea that even I remember those days were, we hadfive thousand and ten thousand pounds. They was run out into this. Somehow wecame up with ideas where we were able to never have. To I mean we as your weeither we have, we had to be available. Yes, we had to jest. We had to extendthe use of our mask, so facient use different types of guns. A sadly saidthat we had hee available and just through the hard work of the MitesManagement, and I had to say the infection control team and in RachelStealin and men, all the videos, they're Makin, a Tenea, that's a goodpoint. You know we were using different types of come. Some of our staff EUwere seen before some had. You know,...

...taken off a certain way and thrown awaysomehow be taken off it out carefully, because we were going to process it insome war, whether it was in the sterilizer or in the watching. Thesheet, so we did a lot of what we call job. It's here, yeah I say were justlittle pictorial, showing how to Dan put it on and off Takin off, andsometimes it was a Emilio with the Staff Watch as the people he waschanging yeah. Well, I love that because to methat's the areas we love the highlight here. The heroic things because youknow in the adversity comes out the ingenuity, the innovative as Dr Manaposaid, when you're exhausted and you feel like you just can't go any further,but you have to and you find that you know deep within and this is where thePeople's people step up and they do heroic things and and and sometimesit's it's not an action. It's an idea, but it all comes together and and helpand help us move things forward. So I love that you share that with us. Thankyou. So, let's talk. If we can a little bit about before we get to vaccine I'dlove to talk a little bit more about the different strains and the variants,and what are your? What are you seeing withthat? I thought I heard recently that they are saying that the part of thechallenge in India is that this is another variant or they're, calling itthe India variant that's happening, and how do we combat this short term? Andhow do we come back this long term? What I'd love for you to share with usis what is the? What is the next five to ten years with Ovid? Is this a aannual shot, as is different vaccines coming out? I know I'm just kind oframbling here. I've got so many questions, so I'll turn it back over toyou, but talk to us a little bit about the variance and what's coming out andhow do we attack it so, speaking of Aliens, you know, that's just how these.Why is this so wide right? You know, so they have to just like what happens inthe bacteria you ev exposing them to antimatter more assistant because theyhave to fight the same live. So if you are lover the virus to transmit easily,then it's just going to mutate and is going to delog his varience andagain to break that transmit chain ease in our hands. So we don't allow the wives to transfer soeasily betwen people, it's lovely, to have a chance to repate. So unless I'mhere, yes, I have no dot about the radiant sitting, the other on to the. UK E South Africa, the Brazil- and you know I was just telling in someother meeting remedy- I'm not a big fan of leaving is after the places, becauseI really don't want to see anything named to local to thing here. It seemslike okay, you know something we could have done different to foment. So it'sjust that's just the way the widest survives and from what we know thetreatment is now different. We feed them all the same when it comes totreatments, but again, as this new variants develop, we have to againcontinue to learn how effective the treatments are against this new Arians.All of that and the same thing goes for the vaccines as well. I try to stay optimistic and from what weknow, especially with the up train. The vaccines are effective against that onthe current factions we have, but that's there is always that concernthat you know they could be some other new Adieno that, but they just like thecascine of the vaccine and prevent that is in our hands. So the apology say that again, the about the prevention of it is in ourhands. So if we follow the precautions where the virus cannot be translated soeasily, then lessening the terms of it...

...developing these rotations understand Ot, yeah elping is reliance so again until we have enough people around usback signature that I a I sound like a broken. The college saying that thereds that responsibility on those who are vaccinated now to protect us aroundthem who are not yet accented until we have enough people in the communitywere vaccinated so that we get to that point where the virus cannot easilyjust transmit from one person to other. When that happens, then the terms ofdevelopment for this variance also goes down right. The right understand, ifI'm fat, if someone is vaccinated and they're exposed to the virus, theydon't show any symptoms. Can they spread it? Yes, yes, so someone who is vaccinated right, theWacos we have are very effective, implemental in polit night, aninfection, I'm very affectionate preventing sevier infection and death.But if you look at any vaccination, we look at. If you look at you know the moral vaccines that or ninetypercent affected after fully vaccinated. I still have that five, ten percent,where there is a chance of someone being deloul with my teen, and what weknow is that those who to love coinin infection after the vaccination havehad mild infection eries of Tamatiinfection, if not develop sevier illness ly for vering hospitalizationor tie from it, so the vaccines are doing their job, their saving lives. So, yes, it is possible that someonehas had a vaccination while the chance is less wiles extremely late. They canthey when, if their exposed they made out the minor recent Tamai, fection and potential for transmission, it'sless, it can still happen, got it so again, go back to your point. That'swhy we still have to continue to be prudent and wearing the masks and andkeeping each other safe. Even though you've been vaccinated doesn't mean younow can run through a crowd of people and andjust say well, I'm protected, because you may not be protected perchance andyou may be giving it to others by chance smaller percentage chance, butcould still happen. So we still need to be a little cautious. I would put it asyou may be perfective, but a person around you may not be protected right,so we'll have to take the precautions to prevent them as well and again, asCS had relaxed to some of the guidelines for fully vaccinated peoplein door and out door. I think that's how I see that as more and more people get vaccinated the masks and all the Pacific cautions,it would be an abrupt. It would not be an abrupt stop. It could be a gradualleaning off of those precautions as the percidae of vaccinated people inPresidant, be just we go from doing everything to nothing. The next TATwill be a very cedule and I say SC taking that step towards that right. Sowhat is in your view, what will be the long term next, five year, ongoingvaccination procedures? Do you think this will be an annual get a boosterflut like the flu or one and done what do you? What what are you thinking it'son now? Don't know yes to yeah, I think that's still being studied so we'llhave to gait for evidence and guidance from aft and CS okay. So let's talkabout is we kind of as we're wrapping up, but let's talk about the vaccine.Let's talk about the M R NA. Obviously a lot of misinformation in the market.People believe the RNA alters your DNA...

...things of that nature, which we'vetalked about on the show and that that doesn't happen. But let's talk about,if you can, why should people get vaccinated besides the obvious, but whyis it safe? How can you help people who listen to this feel better about ifthey haven't been vaccinated going and getting vaccinated next week? So well I understand that you know theBakri came out and we got time, and that is one of the common questions Iget to that normally takes by the ten years. But these accents came out inrecord time. So maybe there were some steps that were skipped in research andfrom malice standpoint and honestly, no, I don't think any vaccine has receivedso much croty and you know Levy like this. One has, I think the vaccine cameout in record time, because we in the middle of the Fandak, we need to savelives. So all the countries, so the powers be and intellectual lines cametogether to complete the research in the God timeand get all the regulatory steps completed in micar time. So for theVaccines Amie Room to US- and I think we just really have to recognize thatthat a that's the power of science and we have what me and Sandy I vaccinatedand or family members or eligible long vaccinated. I can't wait for thevaccine to open up so my kids gale vaccinated as well, and so yes, we're wearing masks or socialmisterton that reduces transmission right. But let's say we are exposed todivide and what prevents us from developing that infection, andespecially the senior in fact and saves. My Life is the vaccine we. So there are two different things and from what we know historicallyabout vaccines. There's some diseases. I don't think the engedan is in in aVado how much mortality or more beady they cost like small talks, or we stillsee some plasters of measle south blanks and Ma the vaccination rap. Solow and again, coved were still learning a lot.We don't know, but the vaccine used me so much fo and there's so many peoplewho've been vaccinated and there's so much data, that's being collected by Cbs that even the JJ vaccine right, that's the vilest lector tacon old,moral, a but the other that came about the platting. That happened becausethey were still monitoring. Even after the vaccine was amiable to the publicright, the systems we have in place on working. They are still collecting dataabout the safety. Otherwise, there is no way they would have formed,something that is so rave so and the past, which was the right thing to do,and then they actually, then we move that pass and said you can vaccinatewith this. You know information about the risk so that, as long as they areread of the risk- and you review that so with this allot about that clock andthat just again re assures me that systems we have in place of workinghere still collecting Wakoo safety right and nothing is being hitter interms of information, whether it was a middleror after the implementation and there's several thousands of our colleaguesAranda and family members and friends who be vaccinated and if he truly, iftruly there was something there was a side effect, it were even related tothe vaccine. I really encourage people to report using the we say or themayors system. That's the only way that the researchers are going to takefurther yeah and see, but assuming that, oh, it's because of the vaccine andthenn spreading. This information is...

...not going to help as low or in createconfidence in others to get the vaccine right well, a great and Sandy. What areyou here when you talk and whether it's talking to friends talking to yourcommunity talking to people at the hospital? What what seems to be thefear around the vaccine and what words of encouragement are you sharing? Ithink Coman polly hit it up right the nail on the head when she said it's afear of whether the whole vaccine was brought into two are used to to quickly.You know at that scares people M, so I don't know. I just think I think themore we can do, the more we can get the word out. You know what went behind.You know all the the studies and research and it truly was expectidgsimply out of a necessity, not not that there was any any sits. You knowskipped is huge and I do think that we are more aware- and I want to say sideeffects, but I don't know that we can always use that word, because so manyof the things that happen, Pasvan we've got to realize. We have those eventswithout the vaccine. You know so not everything is vexing related but, likeI have a that's, why it's so important to speak up if you do have an adverse ofreaction, whether it actin or not, but after the vaccine, to put that into the to the variance side,and that seems incited n just so we can be monitor. You know, is everything inthe trend or assistant a something that want insideif ing that would havehappened without the vaccine. I think that's that's huge, but I do I do hearoccasionally those that just are just and that they're not going to thevaccine. It's really sad after what we have gone through now for your plus,what I have seen and heard stories of people who work in help it when I stillhear because you could say that colitis not real. This whole thing is a hoax. It just really hurt some things. I yes,of course, I see that it's an opportunity to have a conversation withthem and you know try to kind of present our side, but we've been. We have lived that and alsowitnessed first time what healthy workers from different, I must have gone through in the lastyear, especially immutably. I still remember so many people from eating usto the log Levatemi t of nourishing positions who moved out into garageswho moved out into Porteous who moved out of into basements, so they don'tbring the lives back to the families who sent up like large to stay with herparents. So I mean there were things that people did, because so that they cancontinue to take care of this patience yeah they can continue to serve at thattime. You need sully. Willn't ever know how to treat you learn that, along theway you don have a vaccine. So truly they so many people a did what they neededto and to that as their duty to serve and still have. When your, when I thinkyour cod is not real, and it's just hooks and all that this, I just I think,yeah it's, I think we still have to continue who to spread the believers,because we're not going to get there to that holy immunity. We don't take allthese people together, right, health, the health in the vaccine,confidence and cease vaccination bats yeah. Now I agree it is. It is afrustrating hurtful sad that so many people have sacrificed so many thingsto make this better minimize the impact that this has had. I don't know how youdeny that there were that many deaths. I don't know how you deny that itslowed down when we started wearing...

...masks, but that's probably aconversation for another day on why people do that, but it is, it isfrustrating so as we just kind of wrap up here. I want to thank you both foryour work and the work that you've done to me when I'm having opportunity totalk to two people who spent so many years, dedicating their life toinfectious disease and the study of it and and the work that you guys do andyou say to the to our listeners, go get vaccinated, that's validation. For me Imean what level of expertise do I need to hear advice from somebody before Igo. Do something I mean I can't I'm. I don't know so. Thank you for sharingthat. Thank you for encouraging our listeners. If you haven't already getvaccinated, go, get vaccinated, here's two experts who have dedicated theirlives to infect his disease, telling you go get vaccinated, so I don't knowwhat more evidence you might need, but thank you for sharing that as we kindof wrap up- and this has been great- and I think I could have thisconversation for anothertwo hours, because I still have a lot of questions,but we typically close or our conversations on our episodes with since we featureheroes and ask our guests: who was your hero when you were growing up orcurrently and Sandy I'll, put you on the spot first, but when you thinkabout the question who's your hero, who would you who? Would you share that?What who comes to mind? Oh, my goodness, I know this this, my grandmother, mymother's mother, you know, of course, some times were very different. Thatthen, that I don't it's especially if I've been in this this business. Thisstory has been so meaningful to me, but one of her herchildren have got their fingers stuff in a rocky chill. You know it was as aninstates think he was like eighteen months old and it made a cut and no bigdeal. I mean today that would be. I should be taking the actor, should wenot whatever, but if God infected and the baby ended up dying, and I remembermy grandma telling the story that this little ban things into Otis. He wouldalways look at her front. With those little hand, prints were on the frontwindow. You know when, when his father would leave for work and as she didverses windows for so very long that I just stick to myself about, if thatwould have been happening today with the science that we had in place, Louiswould be here with us and I feel like that's exactly what we're looking atwith cover. You know if we got to take advantage of what science is won infront of us yeah, and so I don't know, that's something astu stuck out with me, especially during this I diag when I've it. WhenI've listened to the doubters. I love that that's great and Dr Manapo.I have to say anyone in health here after what I have gone through andexperienced what we have in the last year. I mean it's just I tell my kids,you know if you want to make money to some other profession, not medicine ocause. You know, you think your job is God an t or you're going to get paid ahigher than others, but you want to serve is just the feel for you, becauseevery day you go to work, you make a difference. You're touching so manylives. So I don't know if I can infuse my children to change their minds ornot, but everyone I come in touch with and I work with them. Health Care, I'mjust obvious a side by it, yeah well you're singing our song, because that'swhy we started this podcast was to highlight those selfless people who arejust putting their lives out there. I mean you know when there's nothing moreselfless than saying I'm going to put my life before somebody else's or I'mgoing to put my life on the line to serve somebody else. I mean, I alwayssay, there's a lot of analogies between what you all do in the military and wejust thank you. We just have to think continue to. Thank you guys for yourservice. I I like that out of this...

...pandemic, it has put a spotlight on thehealth care workers more and I think that that's a positive that comes outof this, because I think you guys are doing that every day and we appreciatethat so much. It's been my pleasure to have you guys on the show. Thank you somuch for your time. Thank you. So much for everything that you're doing keepup the good fight. We need you to keep doing what you're doing so. We can allcontinue to be healthy and happy in this world and thanks for joining us,I'm sure we may we want to pull you back in again in the future as thingschange and we learn more we'd love for you guys to come back and join us andcontinue to educate us a e for the opportunity thanks so muchfor joining us. Thank you. You've been listening to heroes ofhealth care for more subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player,or visit us at heroes of health care, podcast com e.

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