Heroes of Healthcare
Heroes of Healthcare

Episode · 9 months ago

Demystifying Healthcare Recruiting: Finding Heroes

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Every new technology comes with the fear that it will make a job obsolete.

With healthcare recruiting, that fear was sparked by fax, email and internet job boards…

But the news of the recruiter’s demise has been greatly exaggerated.

One need only look to Paul Olzak, Medical Staff Development Officer at Lake Health, to know that this is true. He joins me in the latest Heroes of Healthcare to explain what being a healthcare recruiter means in the modern world.

We discuss:

  • How to attract the best talent in healthcare
  • How recruiter outreach and internet search are evolving in the healthcare talent pool
  • How recruiters help each other succeed

Heroes of Healthcare is hosted by Ted Weyn.

To hear this interview and more like it, subscribe to Heroes of Healthcare on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Heroes of Healthcare in your favorite podcast player.

You're listening to heroes of healthcare,the podcast that highlights bold, selfless professionals in the healthcare industry focused on transforminglives in their communities. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the heroesof healthcare podcast. I'm your host, Ted Wayne. In today's episode we'regoing to explore how different healthcare systems are able to identify their true heroes,the healthcare professionals who are able to serve in such a heroic way, aswe've discussed over the last several weeks in our episodes. So we thought nobetter place than to find somebody whose job it is is to find heroes.So, needless to say, I'm excited to be joined today by Paul Olzek. With over twenty years focused on Healthcare Business Development and service line performance,Paul has been at the forefront of redefining the traditional inhouse provider recruiting role.In his position as medical staff development officer at Lake Health and Cleveland, Ohio, Paul Integrates Collegial interactions and analytics and provider experience expertise to drive differential recruitmentstrategies. Paul has a commitment to learning and development and a passion for buildinga network of recruiting professionals to share practices that benefit organizations and candidates. He'searned an MBA and his CPRP certification. Joining Lake Health and two thousand andfifteen, Paul introduced a proactive recruiting model that generates a robust prospect pool,creates an effective and efficient recruiting experience and identifies metrics to ensure optimal performance.Paul's industry leading insights have really led him to many opportunities and speaking on thesestrategies, and we're excited to have him joining us here on the podcast.Welcome, Paul. Hey, great to be here. Thank you. I'mexcited about today. We're going to talk about something a little bit different butyet related, which is probably a lot more around talent management, right andso I recognize that a lot of healthcare systems are struggling with finding people andgetting the right talent in prior to covid and Covid is actually probably put thedemand up much higher. So I'm excited to talk to you about the workyou're doing at your facility and would love to hear from you just a littlebit kind of your philosophy and how you guys approached the talent market right.Sounds like a great way to run this podcast and really look forward to ourdiscussion today. Awesome. So before we jump in, Paul, let's youdon't mind, can you give everybody kind of your background and little where youhail from, how did you get into this crazy business, and you knowjust a little bit more about yourself? Sure, I've been in healthcare ofmy entire career. What a college and Cleveland Ohio and UNGRADUATES GOING CLEVELAND Ohioand I've been born and raising Cleveland Ohio. I work for one of the smallerhealth systems here in Cleveland. I'm like every single recruiter that is inthe market today, which is our backgrounds are hindes fifty seven. Think we'dbe challenged to find recruiter as the same background. We all commend from differentwalks of life. My background is really focused more on business development, theskills I brought to the table in terms of recruiting or my abilities to conversewith physicians and really understand the big picture in terms of, you know,how the physician recruiting impacts the service lines and the Organization of the patient populationwhich it serves. And you know, we can go by different titles,but at the end of the day I'm always referred to and I think allmy colleagues are referred to the same way as hey, we'll just have youtalk to the recruiter. Let's see what we can do here. Or youget a call that says from an outside source. I understand you're the recruiterfor the hell system and you know, can we have a minute to chat? So that's that's how I got here. So your Cleveland Rocks, Cleveland Hallof Fame Guy. Been Lifetime there. I am, I guess. Sowe took we like talking. We like talking baseball on this podcast sometimestoo, as we did on one of our previous episodes. So Am Iright? Are the Indians changing the name? Are they staying Indians? The Indiansof Nast they are going to change their name. They have not toldus what that name change is going to be. Well, I think we'reunique too, because we had a football team that left town and then cameback actually as a new team. So well, everyone says Cleveland is unique, right. So yeah, well,...

...that's right. So we digress.So let's get back into the talent conversation. Here a little bit. So talkto me about some of the practices that your facility has done in termsof how do you track those we like to call them superheroes, of theheroes of healthcare on this podcast. But how pre covid were you attracting thetalent? What resources did you tap into? How did you being a smaller system? Sometimes my might have been to your advantage, sometimes it might havebeen to disadvantage to get the people in. But what was kind of the overarchingphilosophy of how do we get the right talent into the organization? Ohsure, so I came to like health in two thousand and fifteen and lookedat our process and realized there are two fundamental parts that were missing. Onewas we didn't have a forward looking recruitment plan that was very dynamic. It'svery static. The second thing was is that I'm chiep medical officer of thehell system overall. said that he just was tired of just having a onecandidate to choose from. So his goal was to me was what can wedo about that? And I made a promise to him that we would havetwo candidates for every open position and I believe firmly believe that goal setting andhaving those targets is a way to really dry performance and looking at those twothings based on, you know, my background, knowing that we had tohave a living, breathing recruiting plan, we were able to really see clearlynot only twelve months forward but even three years down the road, you know, based on what we knew about our medical staff. And you know,I sat down with the senior bevp of business development who I report to,and and then our chief medical officer and and I asked them really just offthe top of their head, what they thought about our medical staff and interms of who is going to be retiring, who was staying where. We thoughtwe were going to see some growth in the future. And you know, great story is about a year later, when we got together our chief medicalofficer and in our Seniorvp of Business Development said to me, wow,I can't believe how much of what we thought was going to happen in thenext twelve months really did happen. And so, you know, I reallyfirmly believe that every healthcare system has a lot of data that they just mightnot know they have, and it goes everything from personal experience and individual knowledgeto information that's been collected but it's just never been utilized. So really that'sthat's kind of how we haven't looked back and that's how we approach our recruiting. Is Very methodical in terms of knowing where our needs, our demands couldbe, because one of the things that that's well known is that it's possiblethat there's a great strategy for a business line, but it's difficult to makethat strategy hit its particular timeline for implementation because the one component, the thephysician, is not able to be brought into that process. We're into thatservice line is quickly as one would hoped for the fact that different specialties havedifferent recruiting timelines and that's that's really important to know that and one of thethings that you know, as recruiters in healthcare, we we really like tobe involved in the strategy discussions for the fact that, you know, thedifferent specialties have those different lead times and you know, I think we're allcommitted to making sure our organizations have just an amazing opportunity to perform and tobe able to serve our patient population interesting. So that's and again it's funny aspectI guess you know, normally may not think about but if I understandwhat you're saying, is so somebody, if you're recruiting for a physician whois maybe cardiology or surgery versus primary care or emergency versus anesthesiology, there isa different lead time related to the specialty. And is that just the simple supplyand demand situation or what impacts that delay or those different timelines? Yes, plant a man, absolutely, yeah, and your spot on. That's exactlywhat it is. So certain ones are easier to just pull the peoplein for, but obviously, as you said, it also as an implicationto the whole business line because it's an aspect of the continue to keep theengine going for that line is making sure that you have the right talent.So in your years and your experience over the last, I guess you know, five or six years where you currently are, what are some of thebigger changes you've seen? What has changed? HAS ANYTHING CHANGED? Is it reallystill block and tackle recruiting, or have certain things changed in your approachto finding the right talent for the system?...

It's a great question. Yeah,that's the exciting part about recruiting is the fact that there's a lot ofchanges that had occurred prior to covid and the covid was a whole new animal. But let's talk about things prior to covid. Yes, so you askme in the last question a little bit about, you know, our approachingand one of the things I would like to touch on is that there aresoftware platforms available to us as recruiters. I mean, I'm not committed toany of these in terms of any kind of sponsorship or anything, but wedo use to them. We do use two of the more popular ones,which is practice match and practice link, and I think if you find it, you if you serve a curtis across the country, they're going to beon probably on one or the other. The reason I bring that up isbecause when I first started I didn't know anything. I didn't know anything likeI knew a lot about healthcare, knew a lot about service lines. Iall the bits and pieces and really in my business development roles I was alwaysthe recipe be and of the recruiting of the physician. So when I gotto like health I was like, yeah, I I have no idea how physicianslook for jobs. I just didn't know so I went in this crash. Course, it's been a lot of time talking to my peers and alsowent around and talk to some of the positions we had newly hired and justasked them what their experience was and really got a very good understanding and ashort period of time how this happened. And so, using the software platforms, than really able to understand how the process worked for a position looking fora job. Well, I also, though, had spend some time withsome recruits had been in the business for a long time and we've always experiencesin our lives, whether it is with right now, how we how weused to go to the mall and now we go to Amazon, how webuy online, how we used to go places. Well, there's there wasa lot of lamenting about the Morn. There's a lot of lamenting about thefact that these things called career fares were just super popular and you could goto these physically and meet in person candidates who are looking and it was reallyjust a great way to recruit. Well, it was always the conversation. Well, it used to be like this, it used to be like this,and I think in two thousand and fifteen we found ourselveves kind of ina law where recruiting had moved away from that in person touching and being ableto relate to each other in person and versus what we were moving toward asa society, which is more online, more removed. And so, frommy perspective, I thought to myself, wow, the best way to geta touch with people is through email ailing, and we set out on a prettyaggressive emailing campaign and a strategy to be able to connect and that workedout extremely well for us and really had and I had had the opportunity totalk nationally about what our strategy was at our national meetings and at some meetingswith other organizations. But the point is is that what happened was at somepoint in time the emailing became everybody was doing it, and then the candidstarted to check out on that and the trend we started to see was thatpositions were coming into our our process, and this had been something that I'vetalked to my colleagues for the country to and they're seeing the same thing,is that there was this movement with a physicians to Google jobs and to bemore autonomous in terms of how they were looking for their for their future roles. Just stop there for one second. When you say and I think Iunderstand what you mean, but just in case I'm not clear, just forthese listening when you say Google jobs, do you literally mean went into asearch and said cardiologist and just hit Google and hit return and and try tosee what Google came up with? Or my being too general? Know you'rebeing spot on. Okay, yeah, maybe Google is not the best wordto use. Maybe it's more of an Internet search, using the Internet tosearch. Yeah, but simply instead of standing there and saying I don't knowwhat to do or where to look now, I had this thing called Google andthe Internet and I could just type in, you know, cardiologist jobs, emergency room jobs, whatever was, and also and I was getting informationthat would lead me down a path. That's correct. Yeah, and Iknow that because we're attracting all our sourcing and we're seeing a shift in termsof physicians who were responding to our job postings and they were not connected toour emailing campaign. They were now connected...

...through our job posting and the onlyway we knew that they were finding that job posting as we knew that itwas an internet search. There it's no other way they could have been connectedto it. So they weren't coming to you necessarily just through an organic search. What heightened that attraction was the email. So it was the it was theconnection of the email to the posting on the website that was making itmore effective. It was the Internet search that was driving awareness of our jobposting. Got It. So it wasn't the email. The email wasn't necessarilyhelping. It was literally just the organic search. Correct, got it.Okay, interesting. Right. And like, as you said, everybody started emailing, so that we started to become less effective because you were now justone of the many. That's correct. Yes, and I am the pastpresident of how network of position recruiters. At our statewide meetings we had interviewedphysicians on a position panel, residents and fellows generally looking for a job,and we brought them into our twoday event and it was an amazing opportunity forus to ask them questions on a panel and for those and them to askUS questions. And one of the things was is consistently they would say wow, we felt like rock stars for about six weeks when we started looking fora job and really going to start our career and we got in a datawith so much email and calls and a number of ways to get in touchwith us that we just kind of checked out because started to become interrupted toour work day and it we really just didn't feel like we were that specialanymore. And definitely seeing a lot of physicians who are going through the Internetsearch to be able to identify opportunities before they really want to surface and connectand kind of give up their information. Okay, so interesting. So againjust to echo back, so it sounds like what. Yeah, what youwere hearing was I don't want to drink my words, I don't want todrink from the fire hose and get all of these jobs coming into my inboxand and five hundred calls. I want to be able to start to goout and look organically search and try to then be more of a sniper rifleversus the shotgun approach to identifying my next opportunity. Is what feedback you weregetting from the panels correct and also try. I've been tracking our data. Saystwo thousand and sixty eight even hear to date and we've seen a shiftfor sure. Internet search, as we refer to it, or contact therecruiter directly has just continued to climb over the years. Direct email campaign efficiencyin terms of the effectiveness as to cline, studily o since two thousand and sixteen. And the professional referrals are actually on the rise. And what Imean by that it's not paid referral from a position. It's just that weget connected from an attending or a friend of a physicians who says, Hey, I have somebody who's interested in a roll at your organization, and that'sbeen on the rise and that has been a huge change. During the covida pandemic, we have seen that the referral up, way up. Yeah, okay, so let's let's pause on this topic for a minute because thisis great. We have a lot of listeners and are why I was excitedto have you on, Paul, who are in talent management part of healthcare, right. So we have lots of our audience are in recruiting a JRand listen, for whatever it's worth, even is we know all of theexecutives of that. We have the CMOS on the call. They're always lookingfor better talent as well. So we're always looking for the right talent.And trying to upgrade and top grade our team. But this part is reallyinteresting to me because it's something we've been talking about here. I think itwas staffing industry analysts a couple of years ago put out a report and said, of all the ways organizations are finding physicians, the largest way they're findingtheir new job, especially around locum tenants, the temporary side of doing physician work. It was coming from referral. So you had all these other thingsthat made up seventy percent, a lot of it, which was the majority, but it was a lot of little things. And then thirty percent wasreferral. Right. So obviously the providers were saying I'm finding my next jobor I'm finding my next locum's assignment, whichever one it is. Thirty ofpercent of its coming by referral. And so if you guys are seeing thatspike, how do you say, how...

...do we leverage that? So Ihave that data point. They're talking to each other, one doctor saying tothe other doctor, I know of a job over here or you should considergoing here. So what are some of the things that you at your grouphave done or are doing to leverage that? How do you how do you takeadvantage of that fact that data pot great question. So the started almostthree years ago and we were looking for a palmnology critical care physician to joina private practice. So at Lake Health we have private practice physicians and alsoemployed physicians. At our organization. About eighty five percent of our primary carephysicians are all employed. About Eighty five percent of all of our specialists areindependent private practice. That works out really well. It's a great dynamic.It's been very good to us. So one of the challenges, though,is, and I am responsible for helping recruiting for both private practice and foremployed positions. It's what our challenge is. Three years ago was with Prom inart critical care and the group that was recruiting wanted to improve their physiciancompliment by one and we were doing the typical process on my end, looking, posting a role, emailing, doing a number of things and we justweren't really getting the prospect pool that that I was expecting. And senior partnerin the private practice. He is awesome. He's a just a very personable guy, very just very business oriented and very much key role in terms ofmanaging our promonology critical care service line at Lake Health and he's all in.He said, you know, Paul, whatever you think we need to dohere, I'll do it and I love working with them. And I saidto him, you know, I think that it would be best that ifyou are walking through the hospital and walking into the physician lounges and spending timeout in in the organization, that you don't say, Hey, I'm lookingfor a partner. Do you know anybody, because that's kind of a conversation killer. But when people ask you, hey, how's it going, justsay it's great, we want to grow our practice, we're just looking forpartner and you know that's just kind of not going as fast as we'd likeand if you know of anybody, just let him know. And that wasthe first time we did that and in fact that produced more prospects in termsof positions we could talk to and eventually ended up finding his partner that way, and it was a local guy who's working at one of the larger housesystems who just wanted to change and was looking more for an opportunity to havemore control and to have a smaller practice. And he came over and he's beenhere and is he's happy as could be. But the point is isthat that was our first for a into understanding that just letting your colleagues knowthat you're looking all of a sudden starts starts that those wheels turn. Andwe actually found this promonody care physician through nephrologists or nephrologist knew somebody who knewsomebody who turned us on to, you know, Dr Fabian is is whocame on board. So the point is is at that opportunity for me,and I use that all the time now, and so that just became part ofour strategy. So what would happen is I would meet with the practiceand say, you know, this is the data that I'm seeing and Iknow this is where it's going. So please, when you're when you're outand talking about what your future is, don't hold back. You let yourcolleagues know you're excited, you want to grow your practice or you're looking foranother partner or maybe somebody in your practice is retiring and and you looking forsomebody and just see how that that turns out. Yeah, so I lovethat. So obviously right. It's about looking forward. Right exactly. Andwhat I think is so ironic about this and you know, being thirty plusyears and staffing and you know my career as well. It's been very funnyto me that I remember and I'm dating my say. I kind of jokeI date myself. I say I'm Pre Internet, I'm pre facts, I'mpret email, but I remember being in the staffing world and the fax machinecame out and everybody said that's going to be the end of us because everyone'sgoing to be able to fax their resume right to the human resources department.Nobody's going to need the staffing companies. You know, it's totally going todisintermediate the business PS. Every Hick staffing company in the country had a faxmachine next week and they were all using it to their advantage, right right. And then Monstercom came out, the...

...job board. The Internet was nowbecoming prolific and job boards come out and they all said, oh, monstersgoing to be the end of us. Now the clients can go directly onto the onto the Internet, and they can find all the candidates they want. PS, the job boards biggest customers of the staffing industry because they're usingit all. They're using it to leverage the ability to bring the services tothe client. And now we're hearing about all the ATS systems, they applicanttracking systems and the systems. Now we're using AI, so we're going touse artificial intelligence to process well these candidates coming through, so you're only gettingthe best candidates, and that's the new disruptor ps to the story what youjust said. It is still comes down to having a relationship with individuals andnetworking. That's correct. Right, it's yes, and the thing is isI don't say that industry was wrong to be concerned about this, because lookwhat happened to the travel industry, right. We used to have travel agencies,used to have to go down and get your tickets printed, and youknow, all of that sort of stuff, and now it's all gone online,expedia and Kayak and Deltacom and everything's all you know, you don't needand the travel agent is become something of the past around, but in differentways, but clearly the Internet was a major disintermediator to that industry. Butyet in the staffing world, as you said, it's still coming down,to the end of the day, having a conversation, feeling a connection andhaving a relationship with the people, and this is why I think it's soimportant for the recruiters who listen to this podcast to know you got to developthat relationship, you got to develop that pipeline, you got to develop theconnection with the individual. If you're just doing a to your point earlier,an email blast and hoping that somebody's going to come back to you, yourchances of being successful are greatly diminished. Or is, I like to say, hopes not a strategy? Right, exactly. Yeah, there's a lotof talks still today about recruitment marketing and I absolutely believe in that a hundredpercent. I believe that what we're seeing is just a reflection of what eachand every one of us do in our own personal life. Of question toyou and everybody's listening is like, how many things do you buy today offthe Internet that you don't look at the re views before you buy? HMM, it's all become about reviews. I mean, right, why do youthink all these companies are asking you to review the product? Because they knowthat's going to lead to more sales. Right, and that's and that's whatwe're seeing here. For the fact that, again, everyone who's listening to thispodcast knows that physicians I have the best relationships with and there's this brotherhoodof trust that is between physicians because they have all gone through the same experience. And when I found here at our organization is that our most successful opportunitiesto have a physician except a role here at our organization is when our physiciansare chief medical officer, whoever it is. But there's that peer to peer connectionand it's their ability to seal the deal. HMM. I mean,I can tell you personally, I can't take credit for any one of thephysicians that we've recruited our organization over his last almost six years, because it'sa team effort. It is absolutely a team effort and the physicians play ahuge role in that and getting them connected and to be able to have themspeak to each other and to talk their talk and their own nomenclature about theirroles, but more importantly than to be able to talk about everything from schoolsystems to the community to the culture of the organization. And that just sealsthe deal. And that's why the sourcing piece of what we do here isis where, I believe, across the country, for anybody who's in healthcareand physician recruiting. It's about the pool because it is a numbers game,because at the end of the day, really the the prospect of Canada,if you will, once they really get engaged, I to they're going tobe looking for fit, they're going to be looking for how is this goingto be for me and my family and Howard things going to really pan outfor me for my career? And you mentioned it before, right. Soyou got this Ai. That right. That's on them on the horizon today, or maybe even in play today.

You can look at all that datathat you want, and I get that right. I mean, you definitelyneed to go to med school and have, you know, training into subspecialty orthe speciality which you're applying for, but it's not the be all endall. It's those intangibles. Yeah, no, I agree. I thinkit's the it's the AI provides a value or any sort of Algrhythm to bringthe most relevant data to your pool. Right. So what? It narrowsit down instead of having a dial through five hundred names of people who mightwrite a cardiologist in the Ohio market. Right, it pulls it down toit pulls it down, but at is what you're saying, and I agree, is at the end of the day it's a relationship, it's an emotionalby and I think that's the key. You know, to me in lifethere's not a lot of emotional purchases we make, but I've always said theuniversity I'm going to attend is an emotional by, the home I'm going tobuy is an emotional by, the car is an emotional buy, and wecertainly know advertising, and I know your you love cars, so you knowthey advertime world has really created all personas around that personality and what and whatbuys. I've actually even heard recruiters ask the question to candidates if you area car, what kind of car would you be? And that because theyfeel that the personas around automobiles are so clear that their identification with an automobileclearly tells you how they see themselves. So I think that's the very interestingand the other one is our careers, and the career is a purchase.We don't think of it because it's not necessarily an exchange of money to getit, but it is. It's an emotional decision and there's not many ofthem in life that we do. So to just narrow it down to sayai will tell me who is the right person. At the end of theday it becomes a relationship. It's my relationship, is the recruiter to you, Paul, the candidate. That helps make that thing and, as yousaid, within the health system it's everybody's responsibility because you're creating that emotional connection. Yeah, you know, I I two colleagues around the State Ohio whohad shared some success stories with me and they both had as a similar veinto the story, which was they had worked their magic with the candidates andhad gotten them to a point as where they made an offer and there arethinking that maybe the candidate was or was not going to come to their healthsystem. What was an Acriccanton, what was in southern Ohio, two differentmarkets, and at the bottom line is that both recruiting efforts ended up withthe physicians getting involved in a very possive way, connecting one candidates spouse tothe community lead years and being able to connect them to the passion of theirinterest, to what was happening in that community and that help seal the deal. And another one was simply just an outpouring of the leadership the physician partnersand community leaders just being able to come together and really spend time with thecannon as family and and they were able to land that Canada as well.But the point is is that, again, it feeds right into what you weresaying, which is simply wasn't about the job. It was about thejob and the opportunities for the for the family to be comfortable with the jobopportunity. Yeah, yeah, so when you're recruiting you have to take allthose things into into consideration. It's not just about the the quick match orthe quick fix. So right, that's great. Let's talk about a littlebit while we still have some time here, regarding, since it's kind of theworld I come from, and some things about the use of external resources. So you talked about, you know, putting out referrals and creating referral campaignsand the postings on your job boards, and that's and that's kind of thatdirect one to one relationship. But what are you hearing from some ofthe groups that you work with who use outside services and what are some ofthe keys to utilizing a staffing resource to help you identify the right talent?Sure, yeah, I mean at the end of the day. Right.We as recruiters, you know, we want to be able to be acontributing part to or organization and want,...

...you know, to be known assomebody who could really make things happen, and we talked about this little earlier. There are definitely some specialties were supplying to man is is really backwards.You know, there's not much supplying, there's a ton of demand. Andwhat I find is both in our national platform and also on our local platforms, is there's a lot of conversations about outside resources. Who's using outside resources? Do you know any outside organizations that you've had a good experience with?If so, who are they? Let's talk offline or I've seen threads chatswhere people are asking, Hey, have you ever worked with this organization?And then that conversation is taken offline. So we realize again that we knowit's a team effort. You know, it's sometimes we had we go outsidebecause we feel that we need the extra horsepower that an outside organization may have. Access to a pool are we talked about this earlier. Right in sourceright of prospects, who may become candidates, who may become employed physicians. Thethe point is is that we will use them, but it's about therelationship with that organization. It's important to us to have an organization that's efficient, that's easy to work with. But more importantly, and I think thisis one of the things that I feel like how the physicians feel, whenwe're all the recruiters are all asking for their time and attention, we're findingthe same thing in the industry is that we get a lot of emails anda lot of telephone calls from staffing agencies, permanent locums, whatever it may be, all the time. I'm like, we get them every day and sometimesmore than you care and and we all we all ready we all respectthat. We're fine. We find that, you know, if we had aneed, we'd be reaching out, and if we had a need andwe were reaching out. I just mentioned that, how we were going todo it and and really how we do it. And I think what Ilove about the recruiting world is even if we're in the same state, veryaltruistic mindset that recruiters have, I might be in competition with somebody but inthe same respect we all want to be successful and it as long as you'reabout, you know hundred and two hundred miles apart, or nationally even it'seven better. People will show strategies with you, what will share information withyou. They don't care because they know you're not in competition with each other, because we all know the physicians when they're looking for a role, ninetypercent of time it's about location. So somebody in Dallas is not competing withme. Now we're going to happen. But the point is is that isthat we talk right. So we're getting we're getting these phone calls and emailsfrom from outside sources that we're not going to react to, that we're weactually have this process that we all agree to, which is we're going toask our peers. Back to right. We're looking at the reviews when webuy our products. We're doing the same thing. Now we're taking our everydaylife experiences and now we're moving more toward I'm going to ask my colleagues whothey've worked with. Have they had a good experience with our organization and didthey help you out? And that's just and again it back to the relationship. Becomes a relationship business. I know somebody has a relationship with you.You had a good relationship with them. Therefore, I like my colleague.I trust them. Therefore, I'm going to call you, Tet, I'mnot going to call Jim, you know what I mean, or Dianne.Sure, right. So, yeah, you're going to say to somebody,Hey, you know, I need somebody to help me out in either thisspecialty or somebody who've you used before that you like. They're going to say, Hey, call Mary over at XYZ staff and company. She's been arock star for us. And that's how you're going to do it. You'renot going to necessarily just go into your voicemail and say, well, who'sthe last person who called me and I'll give them a try. You're goingto want to have and that's the power of that reference. As you're saying, we're the change in our society. Is How many stars? Right?Does it have? Four stars, a five stars? You know, it'syelled I'm in a new town, I don't know where to eat, Igo to Yelp and I'm not picking. I'm not picking the two star placeto go eat. I'm picking on the five star place. Right, right, yeah, it's the same thing. Okay, now, but I haveto comment. When we would go to these national shows and are statewide events, when we met vendors in person. That that was a big thing,to be able to meet people in person. Sure, and my experiences have beenwhen I have met vendors who have...

...actually taken some time with me andwe didn't talk business at all, it was a better relationship builder than itwas when we talked business, for the fact that they know what I do, I know what they did. We didn't have to. We didn't haveto talk about business, right, but it was that part of it thatreally was important was, you know, just liking the person. Yeah,well, again it comes back to that relationship. I love one of thestories you shared with me, which was, you know, you guys don't useexternal services. Is Very often you've been able to build this engine,I'll call it, which is helps feed you guys and, you know,keeps your selfsourcing your candidates. You are recruitment organization. Therefore, that's thejob they've hired you to do, right, I laugh sometimes with some companies andthey have these big recruitment organizations and yet they use thousands and thousands ofmillions of dollars with external resources. It's kind of like, well, don'tshouldn't have one or the other, but that's a different yeah, that's adifferent thing. But you know the story you shared with me, which wasthat the way I'll put it is the companies who call you and are justinterested in the transaction are not the ones you remember per se. It's thecompanies who call you, going back to this relationship part, who are justcalling to say hey, I'm just checking in. That's true. Yeah,absolutely. Yeah, I've been experience with one welcome Toennis company that their repjust calls and she's out of Georgia. She just cause and say hey,how's it going like? I just want to let you know I'm here andif there's anything that comes up that you need, you know, let meknow and we can see if we can help you out. And we talkedabout the weather, we just talked about how things are going and I've nevermet her in person, but she's just got a great phone presence and shestarted out the relationship simply just saying I just want you to know that whoI am and I'm available and if you ever need us, you know thinkof me and and it's just nice to get a call from right if I'mhow babb to pick up. I'll pick up and I'll talk to her right. Yeah, so it continues to reinforce that point. So as we're startingto kind of come up against some time here, let's just the the lastpart I think I just love for you to talk about maybe is kind ofit's kind of we're what's that story that kind of sticks out in your mindthat you say remembered? I remembered we got this individual or it was atough hire or was able to do and you just saw them kind of movethe needle in terms of the impact to the organization or you know, itjust one of those things. Like I said, you know the theme ofour thing is those heroes of healthcare, and I love the angle we tookin talking with you, because you guys are are out finding the heroes,you're identifying those individuals. And what's that thing when you kind of you,you know, is there one story or the thing that sticks in your mindthat said, hey, we got that individual in here and I just heardthis story. I heard they just did this or something, and you know, man, we're having a small part, but impacting the health system. Ohwell, that's a that's a great question. You know, I dohave. I do a story, though I think that that it's a littlebit of a twist on what you ask, but maybe this will help. Iput you on the spot. So it's okay. That's okay. Weall talk and the industry and we know that about ninety percent of all ofour hires are actually driven by location P preference, usually as family ties andand I can tell you, I can I can answer this with more generallyspeaking, I've had a number of physicians who have come into ourganization over thelast five or six years who have contributed significantly to our organization and really havemade us an attractive place to work. And it's a compounding effect. Wehave dynamic, well trained positions who in our organization. Our culture is theLexus automobile on the the parking lots about is complicated as and is high endas you're going to get. Our physicians are very word community based hospital systemto medical centers. We serve about five Hundredzero people, but our physicians aremore grounded in there and they're more about being part of the community right.So it's not a lot of look at me kind of stuff and a lotof them are very they contribute to our organizations significantly, they engage the communityand they really are just part of and all they want to do is servethe patient population and it's just fantastic. But the one, one one Iwant to talk about, though, is...

...just the one recently that we fireda general surgeon and in our case here, general surgery is pretty straightforward in termsof filling the roles. It's not one of those hot hard to getspecialties. The greatest part about the story, though, is that he is fromSitka, Alaska. Wow, and said Alaska, if you know,is one of the there's a romantic comedy movie with Santa Bullock and Ryan Reynoldsand it was based in Sid Alaska and you know, if you're into thatkind of in the movie it's funny. Yeah, and if you see what'sit go Alaska looks like, you'll be like, how did this guy endup coming to Cleveland? Well, the the Cleveland connection with such said hehad done training all over the country and he was finishing up his training inArizona. So Arizona and said go Alaska couldn't be any different, right.We're talking that a lot of grass and a lot of green and trees tosnow up in Alaska and he connected with us, or the fact that hehad an underlying passion for sailing. And you guys have you be on thelake. We Have Lake Erie. One of the criticisms of the Lake Erieis that it gets very rough because it's shallow. What we're on the sideof all the Great Lakes where we and buffalo off of Lake Erie just gethammered with snow in the winter time because the winds blow into our shoreline,while it makes for great sailing. And I just happen to grow up withfriend of mine WHO's family had a sailboat and I had been sailing on LakeErie, was very familiar with this sailing culture and and so I was ableto have like a sailing conversation with this candidate. And low behold, hecan't. And the other thing was is that I got him up here inJuly, well, July, and Cleveland is spectacular. It's greener than greencould be right. It is just amazing, beautiful, comfortable weather up here.And that was it and he took the role and he's here. Butbut I saw him in November and he said to me, Ha you reallygot me up here in a really nice time of a year, because Clevelandgets very gray and that lacks a lot of color in the wintertime and sailingdoesn't happen. So yeah, no, but I love that story because againit goes back to clearly what was the theme that ran through today's conversation,which is it comes down to meeting them where they are, meeting the candidatesand speaking to their passions, speaking to their families, making sure that it'sgot to be an emotional connection it. It's not just it's not just anAmazon transaction. Right, right, right. Yeah, and he has no familier. Why is this? Is Purely that you know that ten percent ofthe people who just go somewhere to live and work because they have a reasonfor it. So yeah, that I love that. So just to kindof recap as we're as we're wrapping up here, I kind of I wrotedown from notes and you know, kind of the three big takeaways that Ihad and you know, by all means you know, please add if Imissed anything. But one let day to drive your activities right. So you'relooking at the data to see where are they coming from? The emails usedto work. Now they don't work. There's a ship, you know,and all that. So let the data drive your activities. Yes, pointyou where to go. Referrals are still king, so we can still doa lot of things, but at the end of the day it's referrals arestill still still king in terms of finding the right the hero talent in thephysician and the healthcare world. And it's still about relationships and it's an emotionalpurchase. At the end of the day, it's going to be it's the connectionto the city, it's the connection to the community. It's those thingsthat are going to really what helps you drive finding the right talent in theright market. Yes, great, awesome. Well, Paul, this has beenfun. You know, I have to always end the all my episodeswith the question that I'll pose to you, which is, thinking back in yourdays, young or old, who, who was your hero? Oh,sure, I have a lot of respect for individuals who stories are aboutbuilding career, creating opportunities that are aren't actually straightforward, and there's a numberof people out there. You know, Sam Walton, Jack Welsh from Gee, Jeff bezos. Actually, great story...

...there, HMM, but one ofthe ones that I really really like is is Tom Brady the quarterback in theNFL. And and it's not because he won seven super bowls. Right.A lot of people go right to that. One of the things, though,is in Cleveland our team left and then went to Baltimore and and inthat and that a few years where they were in here. I needed tofind a football team that I could follow and I didn't want to follow ateam from a city. So I felt that New England just happened to bepretty generic and it represented an area and I chose that. Low and behold. I had no idea the fact that Tom Brady and bill belichicker going tohook up and create the dynasty that they did. But the reason I bringthis up is because Tom Brady talks about this himself and it's a lot ofpeople may or may not know this, but you know, when he wasdrafted as the a hundred ninety nine player in the two thousand NFL draft,I have some notes here about his his combine comments was he can't throw atight spiral, he lacks a strong army, lacks ability to avoid the rush andand right now the guys got ninety one. Tho career passing yards andsix hundred and sixty four touchdown passes. You know, they had talked aboutthe fact that he gets down easily, he can't drive the ball down fieldand and today he's in his twenty eight first season of the NFL. He'snever had a losing season his creser career leader in an NFL for quarterback withmost wins, quarterback with the most playoff wins, this most super bowl MVP'sand he's won super bowls over three decades or thirty years. It's unbelievable.Yeah, and the reason that is the reason that I like Tom is becauseit's an epic failure for the scouts to they missed his intangibles. Yeah,and is intangible, as I smart. He's disciplined, he's got an exceptionalwork ethic and he understand what it takes to get the team to perform.And the fact that that is that, that's that's the part about his storyis because, while I could read about these other people that I mentioned priorto Tom I actually watched him work, his philosophy and his passion and,is it, his discipline for the game. I watched that unfold year after yearafter year and you can see now, after all these years, how thatjust played out and I think that for me, I think is agreat example to me, my two daughters, people that I you know, anybodyreally is that he was absolutely not even on the radar screen, youknow, being drafted in the NFL and and here, you know, it'sall this discipline, on hard work and really all that he's done and he'snever lost focus in terms of the fact that you just got to stay ontop of your game every day. And so, you know, that's agood example to me and you know, if I'm going to do something ona daily basis, you know, just practice what I want to have happenand it should happen that way. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Whether youlove them or you hate you can you can't deny the who you knowwho he is and what he's done. And know you're writing. Have tohave admiration for the fact that manning had a great career, but he wasa top pick and you know, and and all and all that sort ofstuff, and Tom was nobody. That's I also love in baseball. Thatwas the old Mike Piazza story, right. He was a oh yeah, hewas a draft pick as a favorite to Tom Lasorda, who is hisgodfather and you know, went on to the hall of fame, right.So you always loved that. Everybody, as this, as a saying goes, everybody loves a comeback story, right. And so yeah, I appreciate that, Paul, and I love that about that's a great one. Andand and no doubt again, love them or Hatum, you can't deny thatwho he is. So that's great. Well, Paul, thanks for spendingsome time with us. It's been a pleasure. It's been great taking alittle bit of a different approach to our podcast and getting some information, youknow, in terms of how do we find those heroes and in everybody's world, I love the fact that you guys and lakeside are so open and shareand collaborate with your fellow health systems in Ohio and around the country, andI know you guys share candidates from time to time and even things like that, and obviously that's a that's a great approach to so thanks again for joiningus on the hero's healthcare podcast and we look forward to continue to talk withyou down the road in the future.

All Right, thanks said, you'vebeen listening to heroes of healthcare for more. Subscribe to the show in your favoritepodcast player or visit us at heroes of healthcare podcastcom.

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