Heroes of Healthcare
Heroes of Healthcare

Episode · 6 months ago

Demystifying Healthcare Recruiting: Finding Heroes

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Every new technology comes with the fear that it will make a job obsolete.

With healthcare recruiting, that fear was sparked by fax, email and internet job boards…

But the news of the recruiter’s demise has been greatly exaggerated.

One need only look to Paul Olzak, Medical Staff Development Officer at Lake Health, to know that this is true. He joins me in the latest Heroes of Healthcare to explain what being a healthcare recruiter means in the modern world.

We discuss:

  • How to attract the best talent in healthcare
  • How recruiter outreach and internet search are evolving in the healthcare talent pool
  • How recruiters help each other succeed

Heroes of Healthcare is hosted by Ted Weyn.

To hear this interview and more like it, subscribe to Heroes of Healthcare on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Heroes of Healthcare in your favorite podcast player.

You were listening to heroes ofhealthcare, the podcast that highlights bold selfless professionals in thehealth care industry focused on transforming lives in their communities.Let's get into the show, welcome to the heroes of healthcarepodcast Om, your host Ted Wayne in today's episode were going to explorehow different healthcare systems are able to identify their true heroes. Thehealthcare professionals who are able to serve in such a heroic way, as we'vediscussed over the last several weeks in our episodes. So we thought nobetter place than to find somebody whose job it is is to find heroes. So,needless to say, I'm excited to be joined today by Paul Olzac, with overtwenty years focused on healthcare, business development and servicelineperformance. Paul has been at the forefront of redefining the traditionalinhouse provider, recruiting role in his position as medical staff,development officer at Lake Health and Cleveland Ohio, Paul, IntegratesCollegial interactions and analytics and provider experience, expertise todrive differential recruitment strategies. Paul has a commitment tolearning and development and a passion for building a network of recruitingprofessionals to share practices that benefit organizations and candidates.heas earned an NBA and his CP R, P certification, joining Lake Health andthwousand and fifteen Paul introduced a proactive, recruiting model thatgenerates a robust prospect pool, creates an effective and efficient,recruiting experience and identifies metrics to ensure R, optimalperformance. Paul's industry leading insights have really led him to manyopportunities and speaking on these strategies, and we're excited to havehim joining us here on the podcast. Welcome Paul Tay Great to be here.Thank you. I'm excited about today we're going to talk about something alittle bit different, but yet related, which is probably a lot more aroundtalent management right, and so I recognize that a lot of healthcaresystems are struggling with finding people and getting the right talent inprior to covid and Covid is actually probably put the demand up much higher.So I'm excited to talk to you about the work you're doing at your facility andwould love to hear from you just a little bit kind of your philosophy andhow you guys approach the talent market right sounds like a great way to runthis podcast and really look forward to our discussion bay. Awesome so beforewe jump in Paul, let's y you don't mind, can you give everybody kind of yourbackground and little where you hail from? How did you get into this crazybusiness? And you know just a little bit more about yourself sure I've beenin health care of my entire career went to college in Cleveland, Ohio and UNGraduate School and Clickin Ohio and I've been born and raised in ClevelandOhio. I work for one of the smaller health systems here in Cleveland. I'mlike every single recruiter that is in the market today, which is ourbackgrounds, are hi. Fifty seven think we'd be chalnelged to find a recruiteras the same background we all come in from different walks of life. Mybackground is really focused more on business development. The skills Ibrought to the table in terms of recruiting or my abilities to conversewith physicians and really understand the big picture in terms of you knowhow this position recruiting impacts of service lins and the organization andthe patient population which it serves, and you know we can go by differenttitles, but at the end of the day I'm always referred to, and I think all mycollegues are referred to the same way as hey. Well, just have you talk to therecruiter and we'll see what we can do here or you get a call that says rom anoutside source. I understand youre the recruiter for the health system and youknow, can we have a minute to chat? So that's that's how I got here. So yourCleveland Rocks Cleveland Hall of Fame Guy Been Lifetime there. I am, I guessso. We took we like talkit. We like talking baseball on this podcast,sometimes to as we did on one of our previous epithods. So am I right. Arethe Indians changing the name? Are they staying Indians, the Indians, Ave nouce?They are going to change their name. They have not told us what that name.Change is going to be well, I think we're unique to because we had a afootball team that left town and then came back and I actually as a new team,so well E. Everyone says Cleveland isunique right, so y well that' right, so...

...we digress. So let's get back into thetalent conversation here a little bit so talk to me about some of thepractices that your facility has done in terms of how do you tract those welike to call them superheroes of the heroes of health care on this podcast?But how precovid were you attracting the talent? What resources did you tapinto? How did you being a smaller system, sometimes might have been toyour advantage? Sometimes it might have been to a disadvantage to get thepeople in, but what was kind of the overarching philosophy of how do we getthe right talent into the organization? Oh sure, so I came to like health intwo thousand and fifteen and looked at our process and realized. There are twofundamental parts that were missing: one was we didn't, have a forwardlooking recruitment plan that was very dynamic, very static. The second thingwas: is that Shee Meical Opstar, the Healh system overall, said that he justwas tired of just having a one candida to choose from so his goal was to mewas what can we do about that? I made a promise to him that we would have tocandidates for ery open position, and I belevee fimably believe that goalsetting and having those targets is a way to really drive performance andlooking at those two things based on. You Know My background, knowing that wehad to have a living, breathing recruiting plan and we were able toreally see clearly not only twelve months forward, but even three yearsdown the road. You know based on what we knew about our medical staff, andyou know I sat down with the senior BP of business development who I report toa and then our chiep medical ofser, and I asked him really just off the top oftheir head, what they thought about our medical staff and in terms of who wasgoing to be retiring. Who was staying where we thought we were going to seesome gross in the future. And you know great story is about a year later, whenwe got together our chief mack, opter and and our singer, bpof busdevelopment said to me wow. I can't believe how much of what we thought wasgoing to happen in the next twelve months really did happen, and so youknow, I really firmly believe that every healthcaree system has a lot ofdata that they just might not know they have, and it goes everything frompersonal experience and individual knowledge to information. That's beencollected, but' just never been utilized. So really that's that's kindof how we have 't look back and that's how we approach our recruiting isprermethodical in terms of knowing where needs are. O demands could bebecause one of the things that that's well known is that it's possible thatthere's a great strategy for a businessline, but it's difficult tomake. That strategy hit its particular timeline for implementation, becausethe one component, the physician, is not able to be brought into thatprocess varina that serviceline as quickly as the one would have hoped forthe fact that different specialties have different recruiting timelines,and that's that's really important to know that and one of the things thatyou know as recruiters in healthcare. We really like to be involved in thestrategy discussions for the fact that you know the different specialties havethose different lead times, and you know I think, we're all committed tomaking sure our organizations have just an amazing opportunity to perform and tbe able to serve our patient population interesting. So that's and again, it'sfunny aspect. I guess you know normally may not think about, but if Iunderstand what you're saying is so somebody if you're recruiting for aphysician who is maybe cardiology or surgery versus primary care oremergency versus on Asthesiology, there is a different lead time related to thespecialty and is that just a simple supply and demand situation or whatimpacts that delay or those different timelines? Yes, Plyin Aman, absolutelyyeah a newer spot on that's exactly what it is, so certain ones are easierto just pull the people in for, but obviously, as you said, it also has animplication to the whole businessline, because it's an aspect of continuing tokeep the engine going for that line is making sure that you have the righttalent. So in your years and your experience over the last, I guess youknow five or six years e, where you currently are. What are some of thebigger changes you've seen, what has changed has anything changed. Is itreally still block and tackle recruiting or have certain thingschanged in your approach to finding the...

...right talent for the system? That's agreat question. Yeah, that's the exciting part about recruiting is thefact that there's a lot of changes that had occurred prior to covid and thecode was a whole new animal. But let's talk about things praror to covid yea,so you asked me the last question a little bit about you know our Approacha,and one of the things at would like to touch on is that there are softwareplatforms available to us as recuiters. I mean I'm not committed to any ofthese in terms of any kind of sponsorship or anything, but we do useto the we do use two of the more popular oneswhich is practice machalpractice like, and I think, if you find it th, if yousurvey ancourges cross the country they're going to be on probably a oneeor the other. The reason I bring that up is because when I first started Ididn't know anything I didn't know anything like. I knew a lot abouthealth care. Do a lot about service lines. I all the bits and pieces andreally in my business development roles. I was always the recipient of therecruiting of the physician. So when I got to like health, I was like yeah. Ihave no idea how physicials look for jobs- I just didn't know so. I Wan inthis crash course Spendt a lot of time talking by peers and also went aroundand talked to some of the positions we had newly hired and just askd them.What their experience was and really got a very good understanding and ashort period of time how this happened and so using the softmore platformsthan really able to understand how the process worked for a physitian lookingfor a job well, I also, though, had special time with some recruis had beenin the business for a long time and we've always experiences in our lives,whether it is with right now how we, how we used to go to the mall, and nowwe go to Amazon, how we buy online, how we used to go places well, there'sthere was a lot of lamenting about the store, yeah, there's a lot of lamentingabout the fact that these things called career fairs were just super popularand you could go to these physically and mee in person, candidates who arelooking- and it was really just a great way to recruit. Well, it was always theconversation well, it used to be like this. It used to be like this, and Ithink at in two thousand and fifteen, we found ourselves kind of in a lawwhere recruiting had moved away from that in person touching and being ableto relate to each other in person and versus what we ere moving toward as asociety which is more online, more removed and so fror. My perspective, Ithought to myself wow the best way to get in touch with people is throughemailing and we set out a pretty aggressive, emailing campaign and astrategy to be able to connect, and that worked out extremely well for usand really- and I had had the opportunity to talk nationally aboutwhat our strategy was at our national meetings, that Hav Gat some meetingswith other organizations. But the point is: is that what happened was at some point in time? H, the email ingbecame everybody was doing it and then the candiate started to check out onthat, and the trend we started to see was that Positians were coming into ourour process, and this had been something that I've talked aboutcollege from the country to, and they were seeing the same thing bis thatthere was this movement with physicians to Google jobs and to be moreautonomous in terms of how they were looking for their for their futureroles just up there for one. Second, when you say- and I think I understandwhat you mean- but just in case- I'm not clearn just for the littening, whenyou say Google jobs do you literally mean went into his search and saidcardiologist and just hit googles and hit return and and tryd to see whatGoogle came up with or my being too general no you're briing spot on okayyeah. Maybe Gol is not the best word to use, maybe it's more of an Internetsearch using the Internet to search yeah, but simply, instead of standingthere and saying I don't know what to do or where to look now. I had thisthing called Google and the Internet, and I could just type in you know:cardiologist jobs, emergency room jobs, whatever was and also N. I was gettinginformation that would lead me down a path, that's correct, yeah, and I knowthat because we're tracking all our sourcing and we're seeing a shift interms of physicians who were responding to our job postings and they were notconnected to our emailing campaign.

They were now connected through our jobposting and the only way we knew that they were finding that job posting is.We knew that it was an internet search, so there's no other way they could havebeen connected to it, so they weren't coming to you necessarily just throughan organic search. What heightened that attraction was the email, so it was theit was the connection of the email to the posting on the website that wasmaking it more effective ut. It was the Internet search that was drivingawareness of our job posting got it so wasn't the email, the email wasn'tnecessarily helping. It was literally just the organic search. Correct got itokay, interesting right and like, as you said, everybody started emailing,so that big started to become less defective because you were now just oneof many. That's correct. Yes, and I am the past president of how network ofposition recruiters at are statewide meetings. We had interviewed physicianson a position panel, residence and fellows generally looking for job at.We brought them into our twoday event. It was a amazing opportunity for us toask them questions on a panel and for thesant them to ask US questions, andone of the things was is consistently. They would say wow. We felt like rockstars for about six weeks when we started looking for a job and reallygoing to start our career, and we got into data with so much email and callsand a number of ways to get in touch with us that we just kind of checkedout because started to become interrupted to our workday, and wereally just didn't feel like we were that special anymore and definitelyseeing a lot of physicians who are going through the Internet search to beable to identify opportunities before they really want a surface and connectand kind of give up their information. Okay, so interesting so again. Just toecho back. So it sounds like what yeah what you were hearing was. I don't wantto drink my words. I don't want to drink from the fire hose and get all ofthese jobs. Coming into my inbox and and five hundred calls, I want to beable to start to go out and look r organically sert and try to then bemore of a sniper rifle versus the shotgun approach to identifying. Mynext opportunity is what eback you were getting from. The panels correct EAND,also try I've been tracking our data as two thousand and sixteen eight evenyear, todate en we've seen a shift for sure Internet search as we refer to it.Our contact, the recuiter directly, has just continued to climb over the years.Direct email campaign, efficiency in terms of the effectiveness has declinedsteadilyo since two thousand and sixteen, and that professionalreferrals are actually on the rise and what I mean by that. It's not paidreferral from a phosicion. It's just that we get connected from an attendingor a friend of a physicians who says hey. I have somebody who's interestedin a roll of your organization and that's been on the rise, and that hasbeen a huge change during the covid up pandemic. We have seen that thereferral up way up yeah, okay. So let's let's pause on this topic for a minute,because this is great. We have a lot of listeners and partof. Why? I wasexcited to have you on Paul who are in talent management part of thehealthcare right. So we have lots of our audience, are in recruiting a jarand listen for whatever it's worth is we know all of the executives of thatwe have the CMOS on the call they're always looking for better talent aswell, so we're always looking for the right talent and trying to upgrade andtop grade our team. But this part is really interesting to me because it'ssomething we've been talking about here. I think it was staffing industryanalysts a couple of years ago, put out a report and said of all the waysorganizations are finding physicians, the largest way they're finding theirnew job, especially around Locumtenans, the temporary side of doing physicianwork. It was coming from referral, so you had all these other things thatmade up seventy percent a lot of it, which was the majority, but it was alot of little things and then thirty percent was referral right. Soobviously the providers were saying I'm finding my next job or I'm finding mynext locums assignment, whichever one it is thirty of percent of its comingby referral, and so, if you guys are seeing that spike, how do you say? Howdo we leverage that? So I have that...

...datapoint they're talking to each otherone doctor saying to the other doctor. I know of a job over here or you shouldconsider going here. So what are some of the things that you at your grouphave done or are doing to leverage that? How do how do you take advantage ofthat fact that Datap gorreat question so this started almost three years agoand we were looking for a pomonology critical care physician to join aprivate practice. So at Lake Health we have private practice positions andalso employed physicians and our organization about eighty five percentof our primiar care. Physicians are all employed about. Eighty five percent ofall of our specialists are independent, private practice that works out really.Well, it's a great dynamic. It's been very good to us. So one of thechallenges, though, is An- and I am responsible for helping recruiting forboot private practice and for employed positions to what ar our challengeesthree years ago was with Pomenar critical care and the group that wasrecruiting wanted to improve their physician compliment by one and we weredoing the typical process. On my end, looking posting a roll emailing doing anumber of things and we just weren't really getting the crosspect pool thatI was expecting and senior partner in the private practice. He is awesome,he's a just, a very personal guy, very just very business oriented and verymuch key roll in terms of managing our POMONOGA CRICA Care Service line atLake hoalth and he's all in. He said you know Paul whatever you think weneed to do here I'll, do it and I love work, Owerh them and I said to him: Youknow. I think that it would be best that if you are walking through thehospital and walking into the physician, lounges and spending time out in in theorganization that you don't say, Hey, I'm looking for a partner. Do you knowanybody because that's kind of a conversation killer, but when peopleask you hey how's it going just say it's great: We want to grow ourpractice, we're just looking for partner, and you know, that's just kindof gotta go on as fast as we'd like and if you know of anybody Slo no, and thatwas the first time we did that and in fact that produced more prospects interms of positions. We could talk to and eventually ended up finding hispartner that way- and it was a local guy who was working at at one of thelarger house systems who just wanted to change and was looking more for anopportunity to have more control and to have a smaller Practicean, and he cameover and he's been here and is he's happy as could be. But the point is: isthat that was our first fora, Anto understanding that just letting yourcolleagues know that you're looking all of a sudden starts starts that thosewheels turn ing and we actually found this Commenoli cropcare physicianthrough nephrologist Sonprilo just knew somebody who new somebody who turned usonto you know Dr Fabianis, who came on board. So the point is: Is that thatopportunity for me- and I use that all the time now and so that just becamepart of our strategy? So what would happen is I would meet it to practiceand say you know. This is the data that I'm seeing, and I know this is whereit's going. So please, when you're, when you're out and talking about whatyour future is, don't hold back you let your colleagues know you're excited.You want to grow your practice or you're looking for another partner, ormaybe somebody in your your practiceis retiring and and you're looking forsomebody and just see how that that turns out yeah. So I love that soobviously right it's about looking forward right, Kay exactly and what Ithink is so ironic about this and you know being thirty plus years, indstaffing. You know my career as well. It's been very funny to me that Iremember I'm dating my S. I kind of joke. I date myself. I say I'm PreInternet, I'm prefacts, I'm pre email, but I remember being in the staffingworld and the fax machine came out and everybody said that's going to be theend of us, because everyone's going to be able to fax their resume right tothe human resources department nobody's going to need the staffing companies.You know it's totally going to disintermediate the business PS. Everystaffing company in the country had a fax machine next week and they were allusing it to their advantage right right...

...and then monstercom came out, Tho jobboard. The Internet was now becoming prolific and jobboards come out andthey all said, oh monsters going to be the end of us. Now the clients can godirectly onto the onto the Internet and they can find all the candidates. Theywant. PS, the job boards biggest customers of the staffing industry,because theyare using it all they're using it, doleverage the ability tobring the services to the client and now we're hearing about all the ATSsystems. The applicant tracking systems and the systems now are using AI, sowe're going to use artificial intelligence to process. Well, thesecandidates coming through so you're only getting the best candidates andthat's the new disruptor PS to the story. What you just said. It stillcomes down to having a relationship with individuals and networking. That'scorrect right! It's yes, and the thing is, is I don't say the industry waswrong to be concerned about this because look what happened to thetravel industry right? We used to have travel agencies, you UST, have to godown and get your tickets printed, and you know all of that sort of stuff, andnow it's all gone online, expedia and Kayak and Deltacom and everything's allyou know you don't need and the travel agent is become something of the pastall around but in different ways. But clearly the Internet was a majordisintermediator to that industry. But yet in the staffing world, as you said,it's still coming down to the end of the day having a conversation feeling aconnection and having a relationship with the people, and this is why Ithink it's so important for the recruiters who listen to this podcastto know you got to develop that relationship. You got to develop thatpipeline. You got to develop the connection with the individual ifyou're just doing a to your point earlier, an email blast and hoping thatsomebody's going to come back to you, your chances of being successful orgreatly diminished or, as I like to say, hopes, not a strategy right, exactlyyeah. There's a lot of talks still today about recruitment marketing and Iabsolutely believe in that a hundred percent. I believe that what we'resaying is just a reflection of what each and every one of us do in our ownpersonal life myquestion to you and everybody whos. Listening is like howmany things do you buy today off the Internet, that you don't look at thereviews Beforeyo by m? It's all become about reviews. I mean right. Why do youthink all these companies are asking you to review the product because theyknow that's going to lead to more sales right and that's and that's what we'reseeing here for the fact that again, everyone who's listening to thispodcast knows that physicians have the best relationships with and there'sthis brotherhood of trust. That is between physicians because they haveall gone through the same experience, and when I found here in ourorganization is that our most successful opportunities to have aphysician except a role here at our organization, is when our physicians orcheak medical officer, whoever it is, but there's that pure to peerconnection and it's their ability to seal the deal hm I mean I can tell youpersonally. I can't take credit for anyone of the physicians that we'veever recruited our oriization over this last almost six years, because it's ateam effort. It is absolutely team effort and the physicials play a hugerole in that and getting them connected and to be able to have them speak toeach other and to talk their talk and their own anoman clature about theirroles, but, more importantly than to be able to talk about everything fromschool systems to the community, to the culture of the organization and thatjust seals to deal M. and that's why the sourcing piece of what we do hereis is where I believe across the country for anybody who's in healthcare an physicial recruiting. It's about the pool because it is a numbersgame because at the end of the day, really the prospect he candidate, ifyou will once they really get engaged Itos they're going to be looking forfit they're going to be looking for. How is this going to be for me and myfamily and how er things going to to really pan out for me for my career andyou mention it before right, so you got this ai that right tha on them on thehorizon today or maybe even in play...

...today. You can look at all that datathat you want, and I get that right. I mean you definitely need to go to medschool and, have you know, training, Intho, subspecialty or the specialty anwhicyou're aplanning for, but it's not the beyond Olf, it's those intangibles!Yeah! No! I agree. I think it's the it's. The AI provides a value or anysort of out yourhythm to bring the most relevant data to your pool yeright, sowhat it narrows it down. Instead of having a dial through five hundrednames of people who might ring a cardiologist in the Ohio market right,it pulls it down to it, pulls it down. But a is what you're saying and I agreeis at the end of the day, it's a relationship, it's an emotional buy andI think that's the key. You know to me in life: There's not a lot of emotionalpurchases we make. But I've always said the university I'm going to attend isan emotional by the home. I'm going to buy is an emotional body. The car is anemotional bin. We certainly no advertising yeah, and I know you lovecars, so you know the evertise world has really created all personas aroundthat personality and and what buys I've actually even heard. Recruiters ask thequestion to candidates. If you are a car, what kind of car would you be andthat because they feel that the personas around automobiles are soclear that their identification with an automobile clearly tells you how theysee themselves? So I think that's Beenyou, know very interesting and theother one is our careers and the career is a purchase. We don't think of itbecause it's not necessarily an exchange of money to get it. But it isit's an emotional decision and there's not many of them in life that we do soto just narrow it down to say ey. I will tell me who is the right person atthe end of the day it becomes a relationship. It's my relationship isthe recruiter to you, Pau, the candidate that helps make that thingand, as you said, within the health system, it's everybody's responsibilitybecause you're creating that emotional connection yeah. You Know Ha d, Twocolleagues around the state of Ohio who had shared some success stories with me,and they both had a similar vein to the story, which was they had worked theirmagic with the candidates and had gotten them to appoint as where theymade an offer. And there are thinking that maybe the candiate was or was notgoing to come to their health system. What was in Acron Canton O was insouthern Ohio. Two different markets and at the bottom line, is that bothrecruiting efforts ended up with the physicians, getting involved in a verypositive way, connecting one candidate spouse to the community leaders andbeing able to connect them to the passion of their interest to what washappening in that community and that helps feel the deal and another one wassimply just an outcouring of the leadership. The physician partners andcommunity leaders just being able to come together and really spend time with the Canda as family,and they were able to land that Canada as well. But the point is: is thatagain, it feeds right into what you were saying, which is simply. I wasn'tabout the job, it was about the job and the opportunities for the for thefamily to be comfortable with the job opportunity, Yeah Yep. So when you'rerecruiting, you have to take all those things into into consideration, it'snot just about he, the quick match or the quick fix. soright. That's great.Let's talk about a little bit while we solve some time here regarding sinceit's kind of the world I come from, and some things about, the use of externalresources. So you talked about you know, putting out referrals and creatingreferral campaigns and the postings on your job boards and that's and that'skind of that direct one to one relationship. But what are you hearingfrom some of the groups that you work with? Who use outside services and whatare some of the keys to utilizing a staffing resource to help you identifythe right, talent, sure yeah I mean at the end of the day right we asrecruiters. You know we want to be able...

...to be a contributing part toorganization and want you know to be known as somebody who could really makethings happen, and we talked about this litle earlier. There are. Definitelysome specialties were supplying. Amand is, is really backwards. You know,there's not much supplyand, there's a ton of demand and what I find is bothin our national platform and also at our local platforms is thust a lot ofconversations about outside resources, who's using outside resources. Do youknow any outside organizations that you've had a good experience with? Ifso, who are they? Let's talk offline or I've seen threads chats where peopleare asking hey, have you ever work with this organization and then thatconversation is taken offline? So we realize again that we know it's a teameffort. You know it. Sometimes we we go outside, because we feel that we needthe extra horse power that an outside organization may have access to a pool.Are We talkied about this earlier right? T is source yeah fright of prospectswho may become candidates who may become you know, employed physicians.The point is is that we will use them, but it's about the relationship withthat organization. It's important to us to have an organization, that'ssufficient, that's easy to work with, but more importantly, and and I thinkthis is one of the things that I feel like how the physicians feel when we'reall the recruiters are all asking for their time and attention we're findingthe same thing in the industry is that we get a lot of emails and a lot oftelephone callal from staffing agencies permanent locums, whatever it may be,all the time like we get them every day and thee times more than you care Andand. We all we all read. We won'trespect that we're fine. We find that you know if, if we had a need, we'd bereaching up to h and if we had a need- and we were reaching out- I justmentioned that how we ere going to do it and and really how we do it, and Ithink what I love about the recruiting world is even, if we're in the samestate, a very altouristic mindset that recruiers have. I might be incompetition with somebody, but in the same respect we all want to besuccessful and it as long as you're about you know, a hundred o two hundredmiles apart or nationally. Even it's even better people will show strategieswith you. What will share information with you? They don't care because theyknow you're, not in competition each other, because we all know thephysicians when they're looking for a roll. Ninety percent of the time it'sabout locationing, so somebody in Dallas is not competing with me,nowwe're going to have to it. But the point is: is that Beis that we talkright so we're getting we're getting? These phone calls has emails from fromoutside sources that we're not going to react to that. We actually have thisprocess that we all agree to, which is we're going to ask our peers back toright we're looking at the reviews when we buy our products, we're doing thesame thing now we're taking our everyday life experiences, and nowwe're moving more toward I'm going to ask my colleagues who they've workdwith have they had a good experience with n our organization and did theyhelp you out and that's ust and again back to the relationship becomes arelationship business. I know somebody has a relationship with you. You had agood relationship with them. Therefore, I, like my collegue, I trust them.Therefore, I'm going to call you Ted, I'm not going to call Jim. You knowwhat I mean or Dian sure right so yeah you're going to say to somebody hey.You know I need somebody to help me out in either this specialty or somebodywho you use before that you, like they're, going to say, Hey, call Maryover atxyz staffing, company she's been a rock star for us and that's howyou're going to do it you're not going to necessarily just go into your voice,mail and say well WHO's. The last person who called me and I'll give thema try, you're going to want to have, and that's the power of that referenceas you're saying we're. The change in our society is how many stars rightdoes it have four star the flive stars? You know it's Yelle, I'm in a new town.I don't know where to eat. I go to YELP and I'm not pick. I'm not picking thetwo star place to go eat. I'm ticig on the five star place right right, ver,yeah, it's the same thing: okay, yeah, but I have to comment when we would goto these national shows and our statewide events when we met bendors inperson that that was a big thing to be able to meet people in person. Sure-and my experiences have been when I...

...have met vendors- who have actuallytaken some time with me, and we didn't talk business at all. It was a betterrelationship builder than it was when we talked business for the fact thatthey know what I do. I know what they did we didn't have to. We didn't haveto talk about business right, but it was that part of it. That really wasimportant was you know, just liking the person yeah. Well again, it comes backto that relationship. I love one of the stories you shared with me, which wasyou know. You guys don't use external services very often you've been able tobuild this engine I'll call it, which is helps feed. You guys- and you know,keeps yourself sourcing your candidates. You are a recruitment organization.Therefore, that's the job, they've hired you to do right. I laughsometimes with come companies and they have these big recruitmentorganizations, and yet they use thousands and thousands millions ofdollars with external resources it's kind of like well, don't should he haveone or the other, but that's a different yeah. That's a differentthing, but you know the story you share with me, which was that the way I'llput it is the companies who call you and are just interested in thetransaction are not the ones you remember per se. It's the companies whocall you going back to this relationship, part who are just callingto say: Hey, I'm just checking in that's true yeah, absolutely yeah banexperience with one local Betennis company that theire rep just calls andshe's out of Georgia, and she just calls and say: Hey how's it going like.I just want to let you know I'm here and if there's anything that comes upthat you need, you know, let me know, and we can see if we can help you outand we talk about the weather. We just talk about how things are going andI've never met her in personally, but she's just got a great fholme presenceand she started out the relationship simply just saying I just want you toknow that who I am and I'm available and if you ever need us, you know thinkof me and it's just nice to get a call froml right. They time I', O BEA wilpick up I'll pick up and I'll talk to her right yeah. So it continues toreinforce that point so as we're starting to kind of come up again sometime here, let's just the the last part, I think I just love F R, you to talkabout, maybe is kind of it's kind of w. what's that story, that kind of sticksout in your mind that you say remember. I remembered we got this individual orit was a tough hire or was able to do, and you just saw them kind of move, theneedle in terms of the impact to the organization or you know it just one ofthose things like I said you know, the theme of our thing is those heroes ofhealth care, and I love the angle we took in talking with you, because youguys e Arout, finding the heroes, a your denihig, those individuals, andwhat's that thing, when you kind of you you know, is there one story or thething that sticks in your mind? That said Hey. We got that individual inhere, and I just heard this story. I heard they just did this or something,and you know Ma'am we're having a small part but impacting the health system.Oh Wow, that's a that's a great question no do have. I do a story,though. I think that that it's a little bit of a twist on what you ask, butmaybe this will help El. I put you on the spot. Okay, that's, okay! We all talk in theindustry, and we know that about ninety percent of all of our hires areactually driven by location preference, Tha, usually as family ties a D- And Ican tell you I I can answer this we'v more generally speaking, I've had anumber of physicians who have come into our ogization over the last five or sixyears who have contributed significantly to our organization andreally have made us an attractive place to work, and it's a compounding effect.We have dynamic, well trained Pysitians who, in our organization our culture isthe Lexus automobile in the Parkng lots about as complicated as and as high endas you're going to get our physicians ar very were community based hosialsystem, two medical centers. We serve about five hundred thousand people, butour physicians are more grounded in there and they're more about being partof the community right. So it's not a lot of look at me kind of stuff, and alot of them are very. They contribute to our organizations significantly,they engage the community and they really are just part of, and all theywant to do is serve the patient population and it's just fantastic, butthe one one one I want to talk about,...

...though, is just the one recently thatwee hired a general surgeon and in our case here in general surgery, is prettystraightforward in terms of filling the roles. It's not one of those. How hardto get specialties onthe greatest part about the story, though, is that he isfrom CITCA Alaska Wow. It said Galaska, if you know, is tha one of the there's,a promanti comedy movie with Santa Bulock and Riht Reynals, an it wasbased in Sitcalaska, and you know, if you're ad, O that kind of hit in thatmovie, it's funny yeah and if you see what' SICOASCA, looks like you'll, belike how dod this guy end up coming to Cleveland. Well, the the Clevelandconnection was such that he had done training all over the country and hewas finishing up his training in Arizona, so Arizona and Sitgo Alaskacouldn't be any different right. We're talking got a lot of grass and a lot ofgreen and trees of snow up in Alaska, and he connected with us for the factthat he had an underlying passion for sailing and you guys Havto, you guyhappen to be on the lake we have Lake Erye. One of the criticisms of the lakearea is that it is very rough because it's shallow Wut we're on the side ofall the Great Lakes where we and buffalo off a Lake Eri just gethammered with snow in the wintertime, because the winds blow into our shoreline. Well, it makes for great sailing, and I just happen to grow up with afriend of mine, whos family had a sale boat and I had been sailing. A likeOuri was very familiar with this sailing culture, and so I was able tohave like a sailing conversation with this candidate and low and behold hecame, and the other thing was is that I got him up here in July. Well, Jo andCleveland is spectacular. It's greener than green could be right. It is justamazing, beautiful, comfortable weather up here, and that was it and he tookthe role and he's here, but but I saw him in November and he saidto me Hah, you really got me up here in a really nice time of year, because Cleveland gets very gray and atlacks a lot of color in the wintertime and sailing doesn't happen so yeah. No.But I love that story because again it goes back to clearly what was the themethat ran through today's conversation, which is it comes down to meeting themwhere they are meeting the candidates and speaking to their passions speakingto their families, making sure that it's got to be an emotional connection.It's not just a it's, not just a Amazon transaction right right, right, yeahand he has no family here when is just this is purely that you know that tenpercent of the people who just go somewhere to live and work because theyhave a reason for it so yeah that I love that so just to kind of recap, aswere as we're wrapping up here, I kind of I wrote down from notes- and youknow kind of the three big takeaways that I had, and you know by all means.You know. Please add if I miss anything but one, let data drive your activitiesright, so you're. Looking at the data to see where are they coming from theemails used to work? Now they don't work, there's a shit, you know and allthat. So let the data drive your activities Y S, whent you wear to go.Referrals are still king, so we can still do a lot of things, but at theend of the day, its referrals are still still still king in terms of findingthe right, the hero, talent and the physician and the healthcare world, andit's still about relationships and it's an emotional purchase. At the end ofthe day, it's going to be it's the connection to the city, it's theconnection to the community. It's those things that are going to really whathelps you drive finding the right talent in the right market. Yes, great,awesome! Well, Paul! This has been fun. You know I have to always end all myepisodes with the question that I'll pose to you, which is thinking back inyour days, younger old who who was your hero? Oh sure, I have a lot of respectfor individuals who stories are about building career, creating opportunitiesthat are actually straightforward andthere's a number of people out there. You Know Sam Walton, Jack Wells from GE,Jep, Besos, actually great story there...

M, but one of the ones that that Ireally really like is: Is Tom bready, the quarterback in the NFL and and it'snot because he won seven super bowls right. A lot of people go right to that.One of the things, though, is in Cleveland, our team left and then wentto Baltimore and in and that the few years where they weren't here, I neededto find a football team that I could follow and I didn't want to follow ateam from a city, so I felt that New England just happened to be prettygeneric and it representd an area, and I chose that low behold. I had no ideathe fact that Tom Radian bill bell check er, going to hook up and createthe dynasty that they did. But the reason I bring this up is because TomBrady talks about this himself and it's a lot T. people may may not know this,but you know when he was drafted as the hundred ninety nine player in the twotousand NFL draut. I have some notes here about his his COMBI comess. Was Hecan't throw a tight spiral? He lacks a strong arm. He lacks ability to avoidthe rush, an and right now the guys got. Ninety one thousand career passingyards and six hundred and sixty four touchdown passes. You know they hadtalked about the fact that he gets down easily. He can't drive the ball downfield and- and today he's in his twenty eight first season of the NFL he'snever had a losing season. His CREESA career leader in the NFL forquarterback, with most winds quarterback with the most playoff winds,the most superble mvps and he's on super bowls over three decades oerthirty years, it's unbelievable yeah and the reason that is the reason thatI like Tom, is because it's epic failure for the scouts to they missdhis intangils yeah and is intangible S. I smart he's disciplined he's, got anexceptional work ethic and he understand what it takes to get theteam to perform and the fact that is that that's that's the part about hisstories, because, while I could read about these other people that hadmentioned prior to Tim, I actually watched him work, his philosophy and his passion,and is it is discipline for the game. I watch that unfold year after year afteryear, and you can see now after all these years, how that just played out-and I think that, for me I think, is a great example to me, my two daughters,people- that you know anybody really is that he was absolutely not even on Haradar screen. You know being drafted in the NFL, and here you know it's allthis discipline an hard work and really all that he's done and he's never lostfocus in terms of the fact that you just got to stay on top of your gameevery day, and so you know that's a good example to me, and you know, ifI'm going to do something on a daily basis. You know just practice what whatI want to have happen, and it should happen that way: Yeah Yeah, no doubtwhether you love them or you hate them. You can't you can't deny the WH, youknow who he is and what he's done and know you're right and have to haveadmiration for the fact that manning had a great career, but he was a toppick and you know an and all and all that sort of stuff and Tom was nobody.That's. I also love in baseball. That was the old Mike Piazza story right. Hewas a oh yeah. He was a draft pick as a favor to Tom Lasorda, who was hisgodfather and you know, went on to the hall of Fame Right. So you always lovethat everybody, as is as the Sayne goes. Everybody loves to Comeback Story Rightand so yeah Os. I appreciate that Paul and I love that about that's a greatone and and and no doubt again, love Hem or hate em. You can't deny that whohe is so right. That's great! We Paul thanks for spending some time with us.It's been a pleasure, it's been great, taking a little bit of a differentapproach to our podcast and getting some information. You know in terms ofhow do we find those heroes and in everybody's world. I love the fact thatyou guys and lakeside are so open and share and collaborate with your fellowhealth systems in Ohio and around the country, and I know you guys- sharecandidates from time to time and even things like that, and obviously that'sa that's a great approach to so thanks again for joining us on the hearshealthcare podcast, and we look forward...

...to continue to talk with you down theroad in the future. Alright, thanks had you've been listening to heroes ofhealthcare for more subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player,or visit us at heroes of healthcare, podcastcom.

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